Paladin vs Warrior - ARR better set roles!

[darkstarpoet1]

I liked the option of WAR and PLD as tanks but I really think PLD should have higher HP and possibly better defense or at least provide them with higher DPS so they can be at least balanced with War.

Warrior was pretty much the only tank I've seen in any of the parties I've played in on my server. Because most people reply was.. Why get a Paladin when Warrior is just as good if not better.

I played PLD it was fun imo, most fun I've had with a class. But its not really asked for by people from what I saw.

it wasn't because war was as good or better at all. it was because war was the SAFER option because a bad war is better than a bad pld(most pug's were pretty bad) so people went that route. if you dealt with most of the endgame shells at all though you will realize that the vast majority of them went with pld's because a high skilled pld is much better than a high skilled war. war has the higher starting point, but pld has the much higher ceiling.

it was the same thing with people wanting thm's in ifrit and wouldn't let blm's into the party on excalibur in a pug. it wasn't because thm's were better in that fight at all. it was because it was the safer option and it had more room for error. a blm would do vastly higher damage in that fight, but it had a higher chance to fail so people weren't willing to take that chance.

[Shougun]

it wasn't because war was as good or better at all. it was because war was the SAFER option because a bad war is better than a bad pld(most pug's were pretty bad) so people went that route. if you dealt with most of the endgame shells at all though you will realize that the vast majority of them went with pld's because a high skilled pld is much better than a high skilled war. war has the higher starting point, but pld has the much higher ceiling.

it was the same thing with people wanting thm's in ifrit and wouldn't let blm's into the party on excalibur in a pug. it wasn't because thm's were better in that fight at all. it was because it was the safer option and it had more room for error. a blm would do vastly higher damage in that fight, but it had a higher chance to fail so people weren't willing to take that chance.

I went THM because I could raise the WHM or what have you..

Once my whole party wiped and I ran around the rink casting GLD defense spells with my monk feather/second - out of mp I had to just run around like a chicken - got enough to raise the WHM while Ifrit was doing his dashes. Unwiped my party XD

I was teh Uber.. lol. I can play BLM fine but even with skill THM is a good choice.

Just to comment on some peoples servers on Balmung PLD is a very popular end game boss tanker.

[FedeMax]

You're killing off Warrior tanks that why. Why should someone have to play a Paladin just because they want to tank?

Why should anyone play WHM if they want to heal, why should anyone DRG if the want to melee, some jobs can only do that which PLD is one. WAR can would still tank if there was not a PLD avaliable just to a less degree in emity control and defense.

Currently as of 1.0 PLD could only tank and only solo tank, while WAR could DD, AOE DD, single tank and AOE tank. Other than endgame content PLD was useless and unwanted for WAR AOE dps and fast kill while WHM spam cures. Just trying to thinking of normal content senerios where PLD and WAR can be use together.

[darkstarpoet1]

I went THM because I could raise the WHM or what have you..

Once my whole party wiped and I ran around the rink casting GLD defense spells with my monk feather/second - out of mp I had to just run around like a chicken - got enough to raise the WHM while Ifrit was doing his dashes. Unwiped my party XD

I was teh Uber.. lol. I can play BLM fine but even with skill THM is a good choice.

Just to comment on some peoples servers on Balmung PLD is a very popular end game boss tanker.

that's what i am talking about by safer though. you did have more room for error and less chances of wiping. if you had a good group that very rarely got hit with anything then it wasn't needed though. when my ls got bored and decided go go run ifrit for whatever reason there was very little damage done to anyone outside of his attacks on the tank himself. in those type of groups those extra raises weren't needed and the extra damage the blm's could do made the fight end much more quickly.

they were used in pugs mostly because they didn't know who was likely to get hit by every move ifrit made or if everyone was skilled and made the fight super easy. they went the safer route because of those concerns.

[Kalsic]

Why should anyone play WHM if they want to heal, why should anyone DRG if the want to melee, some jobs can only do that which PLD is one. WAR can would still tank if there was not a PLD avaliable just to a less degree in emity control and defense.

Because that's how the game was made. Just because WHM is the only healer at the moment doesn't mean that it will be in the future. You play Dragoon because you want to play Dragoon, it's not the only melee class in the game.

The best Paladin in the world could out tank the best Warrior in the world on single target because that's what Paladin is meant to do. Paladin isn't meant to be an AOE tank, and giving them the abilities to do so would just mess the game up in the future once they bring in more support/CC classes... Why CC if you can just burn everything down? The game will just turn into World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King.

[Kiote]

Yes, let's make it so the game only have one tanking class! That certainly wasn't a problem in every MMO that ever made the mistake of doing that..

1.0's Tanking problem, which only existed in the Minds of people who will only do fights with the latest Strategy posted to Youtube, was that Warriors could DD and Tank at the same time. SE didn't do enough to differentiate between the two stances.

Paladin's were amazing tanks and I can't think of a fight I wasn't able to beat with a PLD tank.

[Orophin]

I think one thing people are failing to mention is that classes/jobs will START with TP instead of having to build it up in ARR. This will change the dynamic for both tanking roles greatly.

[Paix]

I saw no issue with Paladin as a tank in 1.0. Just had to know how to use the job well to really stand up over the challenge of a small group of one minded people thinking Warrior was always better.


But in the end I would like to see Paladin revamped though ^^b

[Ladon]

Endgame the roles felt fine to me. You could go with either in most fights then there were a couple fights where you'd want to go either Warrior or Paladin. That is almost an ideal situation for two classes competing for party roles.

The biggest issue for Paladins were EXP parties but this is sort of a perpetual issue with pretty much every MMO ever made where you have a defensive and offensive tank classes. Offense wins in EXP parties, period.

It's even worse when you get into Steel Cyclone levels. Paladins are completely useless compared to Warriors with SC. So the main thing that Paladins need here is some actual AE damage. The return of Circle Slash would be nice; something that is close to damage to Steel Cyclone but doesn't offer any additional effects.

[Kalsic]

@Ladon
Exp parties will most likely be around in ARR, but I don't think Paladins will have as hard of a time anymore with questing and other content around.

btw, nice signature. =)