Animation Lock: Why don't you like it?

[Geiger]

Ifrit in 1.0 wasn't a hard fight at all. Most people tried to rush it by spamming skills/spells, which lead to animation lock deaths and wipes.
In ARR it seems there will be very different gameplay mechanics, and I'm guessing the new boss fights will have more to do with skill rather than following formulas and being patient. Bottom line: Less deaths that are 'purely bad luck'.
Sounds good to me.

[Ruisu]

No, it's not an excuse for being bad at an easy game. I love this- whenever someone argues that something is designed poorly, the first thing anyone says is "ur just bad gtfo."

No, he's not bad. He learned to deal with it, as did all of us- but that doesn't mean it's good game design.

Many of us have beaten all the primal fights dozens of times- that doesn't mean that animation lock is a good or acceptable as a mechanic, nor does it mean that we are "bad" because we don't like it.

In fact, if we are able to beat these things in spite of the poor functions that affect them, I would argue that we as players are pretty darn good.

Animation Lock doesn't making proper timing important? Because there are numerous games where it is relevant to the combat system. Dark Souls and Monster Hunter come to mind. Not that I personally care whether animation lock stays or not, but to say that it's a poor function is fucking ridiculous. It's a skill, and many people fail at the skill.

[SkyeWindbinder]

Animation Lock doesn't making proper timing important? Because there are numerous games where it is relevant to the combat system. Dark Souls and Monster Hunter come to mind. Not that I personally care whether animation lock stays or not, but to say that it's a poor function is fucking ridiculous. It's a skill, and many people fail at the skill.

Actually, saying it's a poor function is an opinion. You are obviously of the opinion that it's not a poor function. Holy crap, differing opinions! On a forum thread! Who'd a thunk this could happen? It's a sign of the end times! lol

I, personally, don't like how animation lock was implemented in this game. I think it's a much better design to simply make spells or moves that require a character to stand still be cancelled when a character moves. It just makes more sense to me. Also, chill out with the F bombs, dude. It's just a thread about animation lock, it's not that deep. Calm down.

[Alhanelem]

Animation Lock doesn't making proper timing important?

No. Not having animation lock doesn't make proper timining UNimportant. You still have cooldowns to deal with and animation lock doesn't mean there is no non-animation based locking. Any locking that exists should make sense based on when it would make sense to be able to move, not just arbitrarily locking you from start of animation to finish. When I feel like I should be logically able to move by instinctively pressing buttons, i expect my character to move. That happens in most every game (even those touted as examples of good animation lock) except this one and XI. Your character does not need to be held in place during wind up and wind down.

[Ruisu]

Actually, saying it's a poor function is an opinion. You are obviously of the opinion that it's not a poor function. Holy crap, differing opinions! On a forum thread! Who'd a thunk this could happen? It's a sign of the end times! lol

I, personally, don't like how animation lock was implemented in this game. I think it's a much better design to simply make spells or moves that require a character to stand still be cancelled when a character moves. It just makes more sense to me. Also, chill out with the F bombs, dude. It's just a thread about animation lock, it's not that deep. Calm down.

Saying something is an opinion is an easy cop out of a discussion, rather than discussing what is wrong/right with WELL IT'S AN OPINION SETTLE DOWN JEEZ. I've already stated that I don't care if we keep Animation lock or not, since it was poorly implemented. But to abolish it completely rather than fix it seems to be a common train of thought on these forums. I really don't care either way.

No. Not having animation lock doesn't make proper timing UNimportant. You still have cooldowns to deal with and animation lock doesn't mean there is no non-animation based locking. Any locking that exists should make sense based on when it would make sense to be able to move, not just arbitrarily locking you from start of animation to finish. When I feel like I should be logically able to move by instinctively pressing buttons, i expect my character to move. That happens in most every game (even those touted as examples of good animation lock) except this one and XI. Your character does not need to be held in place during wind up and wind down.

When did I imply that timing was not important without animation lock? I've said that animation lock made your timing far more important. You're referring to the server/game lag. Not animation lock. XIV's animation lock is horrid, but the concept in general isn't bad at all, which many seem to be implying in this thread.

[Solace]

Ifrit and his cracks for example.
If ur stuck in animation-lock, you dont get out of the cracks before they erupt. Thats one of the problems we had with it.

That's why you never use certain abilities while you are timing his..
You always wait for Ifrit, then you respond, based on the move he makes. Plumes will never get you if you do that.
I just don't want the animations to just stop, because it looks sloppy and hurts immersion.

The animation takes long because it is a particularly powerful ability, so it takes longer to execute.
That is logical to me and should remain as it is..
As long as it remains that you don't end up loosing abilities due to "Excessively" long animations..

I don't want to have to say "Great I can't use this ability the entire fight, because it takes too long"
If that starts happening we have an issue imo.

So far as long as you pay attention, all things were escapable and the only reason to get hit by plumes, was a lack of paying attention.

Side note: The topic implies everyone does NOT like animation lock but some people actually do..
Watching characters spaz out all day, skipping animations, is not my idea of immersion.
It really kills the environment.

[SkyeWindbinder]

Saying something is an opinion is an easy cop out of a discussion, rather than discussing what is wrong/right with WELL IT'S AN OPINION SETTLE DOWN JEEZ. I've already stated that I don't care if we keep Animation lock or not, since it was poorly implemented. But to abolish it completely rather than fix it seems to be a common train of thought on these forums. I really don't care either way.

If you didn't care, what was with the F-bomb? lol You seem... upset, for someone who doesn't care that someone else has an opinion that differs from yours. Fo serious, tho, you need to pop a pill and chillax brah.

Imo, certain features of a game have their place in certain games. I don't think animation lock has a place in an mmo. And for you to say people who say it's their opinion that animation lock should go is a cop out is severely stupid, because of course people have a reason for these opinions they have. Some people think it should go because it's a terrible feature in their opinion to put into an mmo. (Psst, that's my opinion) Some people think it should go because they feel it's unnecessary and the so-called "challenge" it presents can be done another way, such as cancelling abilities that require standing still when a person moves. There are plenty of reasons people gave for not wanting animation lock, Try reading the thread a bit more before jumping the gun like that.

[Alhanelem]

When did I imply that timing was not important without animation lock? I've said that animation lock made your timing far more important.

No, it doesn't make it far more important- not in a good way. It's a handicap on the player, not an intended mechanic to promote timing as a skill. You need skill and timing whether there's animation lock or not. It is not needed to have a well-funcitoning game. Basically, this:

Some people think it should go because they feel it's unnecessary and the so-called "challenge" it presents can be done another way, such as cancelling abilities that require standing still when a person moves.

You don't need animation lock to make a fight challenging. there are plenty of ways to do it.

XIV's animation lock is horrid, but the concept in general isn't bad at all, which many seem to be implying in this thread.

The concept *IS* horrid. While various kinds of actions should have sensible delays on allowing input that are based on when you could realisitcally move, having these delays controlled by the animations is terrible. The delays should be arbitrary and based on the amount of time the player should realistically be immobile- Not based on the animation's start and end- points near which it is completely reasonable and appropriate to move, and points at which animation blending can kick in to smooth the transition from one action to the next.

That's why you never use certain abilities while you are timing his..

No duh, but the thing is, the abilities and spells lock you in place much longer than they should, making dodigng these attacks more difficult than it SHOULD be. I expect a certain amount of immobile time on an attack. But the proper time that you should be made immobile is not the full length of the animation- it is only the part of the animation where the actual effect of the attack/ability/spell is being invoked. The wind up and wind down should be able to be broken out of, as in real life you can realistically do this. FFXIV did not have animation lock because it was a good gameplay mechanic- it had it because it mad the graphics more fluid in the absence of animation blending.

You know, as other people have noticed and sometimes criticized me for, I've repeated this a fair few times to different people (but so have the opponents repeated the same things back). So to make everyone jubilant, this is the last time. if you get it, you get it, if you don't, you don't, and that's fine with me.

[Ruisu]

If you didn't care, what was with the F-bomb? lol You seem... upset, for someone who doesn't care that someone else has an opinion that differs from yours. Fo serious, tho, you need to pop a pill and chillax brah.

Imo, certain features of a game have their place in certain games. I don't think animation lock has a place in an mmo. And for you to say people who say it's their opinion that animation lock should go is a cop out is severely stupid, because of course people have a reason for these opinions they have. Some people think it should go because it's a terrible feature in their opinion to put into an mmo. (Psst, that's my opinion) Some people think it should go because they feel it's unnecessary and the so-called "challenge" it presents can be done another way, such as cancelling abilities that require standing still when a person moves. There are plenty of reasons people gave for not wanting animation lock, Try reading the thread a bit more before jumping the gun like that.

What the hell? I never said the lack of animation lock was a cop out. I was referring to the whole IT'S AN OPINION excuse.

No, it doesn't make it far more important- not in a good way. It's a handicap on the player, not an intended mechanic to promote timing as a skill. You need skill and timing whether there's animation lock or not. It is not needed to have a well-funcitoning game. Basically, this:

You don't need animation lock to make a fight challenging. there are plenty of ways to do it.

The concept *IS* horrid. While various kinds of actions should have sensible delays on allowing input that are based on when you could realisitcally move, having these delays controlled by the animations is terrible. The delays should be arbitrary and based on the amount of time the player should realistically be immobile- Not based on the animation's start and end- points near which it is completely reasonable and appropriate to move, and points at which animation blending can kick in to smooth the transition from one action to the next.

No duh, but the thing is, the abilities and spells lock you in place much longer than they should, making dodigng these attacks more difficult than it SHOULD be. I expect a certain amount of immobile time on an attack. But the proper time that you should be made immobile is not the full length of the animation- it is only the part of the animation where the actual effect of the attack/ability/spell is being invoked. The wind up and wind down should be able to be broken out of, as in real life you can realistically do this. FFXIV did not have animation lock because it was a good gameplay mechanic- it had it because it mad the graphics more fluid in the absence of animation blending.

You know, as other people have noticed and sometimes criticized me for, I've repeated this a fair few times to different people (but so have the opponents repeated the same things back). So to make everyone jubilant, this is the last time. if you get it, you get it, if you don't, you don't, and that's fine with me.

"I don't like animation lock so it's a bad game design!"

Okay, I'm done here.

[SkyeWindbinder]

What the hell? I never said the lack of animation lock was a cop out. I was referring to the whole IT'S AN OPINION excuse.

So was I. And no, it's still not a "cop out", you still need to go back and read the reasons that were actually posted for these opinions, and you still need to learn to calm down. Ritalin. Invest in it. lol

Okay, I'm done here.

Truthfully, you were done before you started.

But thanks for the laughs anyway.