Animation Lock: Why don't you like it?

[Warlock]

The problem isn't animation lock, it's the fact that we faced battles that seemed to be designed without animation lock (or lag) in mind.

I'd prefer that the lag and battle issues be fixed rather than the animation lock. A DRG that can run around while executing chaos thrust will look ridiculous (even if they separate upper and lower body animations)

If the battles and lag are fixed, we won't care about the lock anymore and the whole game will look/play better.

I have yet to see this...didn't even happen in basic alpha build footage why should later?

[KaiTBF]

I have yet to see this...didn't even happen in basic alpha build footage why should later?

Check some of the live letters, it was shown there. Used it on a tree if I recall.

[Alhanelem]

I don't get why people talk about both animation lock (note that in many cases, animation lock is an engine flaw rather than something that was consciously put into the game as a feature) and global cooldowns in the same breath. There is really no reason why a game has to have either one or the other. I can see global cooldowns as a mechanism to improve stress on the servers but beyond that, there's nothing really necessary about either of these things. Just have individual cooldowns only.

Excuses for being bad at an easy game.

No, it's not an excuse for being bad at an easy game. I love this- whenever someone argues that something is designed poorly, the first thing anyone says is "ur just bad gtfo."

No, he's not bad. He learned to deal with it, as did all of us- but that doesn't mean it's good game design.

Many of us have beaten all the primal fights dozens of times- that doesn't mean that animation lock is a good or acceptable as a mechanic, nor does it mean that we are "bad" because we don't like it.

In fact, if we are able to beat these things in spite of the poor functions that affect them, I would argue that we as players are pretty darn good.

[Ruisu]

No, it's not an excuse for being bad at an easy game. I love this- whenever someone argues that something is designed poorly, the first thing anyone says is "ur just bad gtfo."

No, he's not bad. He learned to deal with it, as did all of us- but that doesn't mean it's good game design.

Many of us have beaten all the primal fights dozens of times- that doesn't mean that animation lock is a good or acceptable as a mechanic, nor does it mean that we are "bad" because we don't like it.

In fact, if we are able to beat these things in spite of the poor functions that affect them, I would argue that we as players are pretty darn good.

Animation Lock doesn't making proper timing important? Because there are numerous games where it is relevant to the combat system. Dark Souls and Monster Hunter come to mind. Not that I personally care whether animation lock stays or not, but to say that it's a poor function is fucking ridiculous. It's a skill, and many people fail at the skill.

[SkyeWindbinder]

Animation Lock doesn't making proper timing important? Because there are numerous games where it is relevant to the combat system. Dark Souls and Monster Hunter come to mind. Not that I personally care whether animation lock stays or not, but to say that it's a poor function is fucking ridiculous. It's a skill, and many people fail at the skill.

Actually, saying it's a poor function is an opinion. You are obviously of the opinion that it's not a poor function. Holy crap, differing opinions! On a forum thread! Who'd a thunk this could happen? It's a sign of the end times! lol

I, personally, don't like how animation lock was implemented in this game. I think it's a much better design to simply make spells or moves that require a character to stand still be cancelled when a character moves. It just makes more sense to me. Also, chill out with the F bombs, dude. It's just a thread about animation lock, it's not that deep. Calm down.

[Alhanelem]

When did I imply that timing was not important without animation lock? I've said that animation lock made your timing far more important.

No, it doesn't make it far more important- not in a good way. It's a handicap on the player, not an intended mechanic to promote timing as a skill. You need skill and timing whether there's animation lock or not. It is not needed to have a well-funcitoning game. Basically, this:

Some people think it should go because they feel it's unnecessary and the so-called "challenge" it presents can be done another way, such as cancelling abilities that require standing still when a person moves.

You don't need animation lock to make a fight challenging. there are plenty of ways to do it.

XIV's animation lock is horrid, but the concept in general isn't bad at all, which many seem to be implying in this thread.

The concept *IS* horrid. While various kinds of actions should have sensible delays on allowing input that are based on when you could realisitcally move, having these delays controlled by the animations is terrible. The delays should be arbitrary and based on the amount of time the player should realistically be immobile- Not based on the animation's start and end- points near which it is completely reasonable and appropriate to move, and points at which animation blending can kick in to smooth the transition from one action to the next.

That's why you never use certain abilities while you are timing his..

No duh, but the thing is, the abilities and spells lock you in place much longer than they should, making dodigng these attacks more difficult than it SHOULD be. I expect a certain amount of immobile time on an attack. But the proper time that you should be made immobile is not the full length of the animation- it is only the part of the animation where the actual effect of the attack/ability/spell is being invoked. The wind up and wind down should be able to be broken out of, as in real life you can realistically do this. FFXIV did not have animation lock because it was a good gameplay mechanic- it had it because it mad the graphics more fluid in the absence of animation blending.

You know, as other people have noticed and sometimes criticized me for, I've repeated this a fair few times to different people (but so have the opponents repeated the same things back). So to make everyone jubilant, this is the last time. if you get it, you get it, if you don't, you don't, and that's fine with me.

[Ruisu]

If you didn't care, what was with the F-bomb? lol You seem... upset, for someone who doesn't care that someone else has an opinion that differs from yours. Fo serious, tho, you need to pop a pill and chillax brah.

Imo, certain features of a game have their place in certain games. I don't think animation lock has a place in an mmo. And for you to say people who say it's their opinion that animation lock should go is a cop out is severely stupid, because of course people have a reason for these opinions they have. Some people think it should go because it's a terrible feature in their opinion to put into an mmo. (Psst, that's my opinion) Some people think it should go because they feel it's unnecessary and the so-called "challenge" it presents can be done another way, such as cancelling abilities that require standing still when a person moves. There are plenty of reasons people gave for not wanting animation lock, Try reading the thread a bit more before jumping the gun like that.

What the hell? I never said the lack of animation lock was a cop out. I was referring to the whole IT'S AN OPINION excuse.

No, it doesn't make it far more important- not in a good way. It's a handicap on the player, not an intended mechanic to promote timing as a skill. You need skill and timing whether there's animation lock or not. It is not needed to have a well-funcitoning game. Basically, this:

You don't need animation lock to make a fight challenging. there are plenty of ways to do it.

The concept *IS* horrid. While various kinds of actions should have sensible delays on allowing input that are based on when you could realisitcally move, having these delays controlled by the animations is terrible. The delays should be arbitrary and based on the amount of time the player should realistically be immobile- Not based on the animation's start and end- points near which it is completely reasonable and appropriate to move, and points at which animation blending can kick in to smooth the transition from one action to the next.

No duh, but the thing is, the abilities and spells lock you in place much longer than they should, making dodigng these attacks more difficult than it SHOULD be. I expect a certain amount of immobile time on an attack. But the proper time that you should be made immobile is not the full length of the animation- it is only the part of the animation where the actual effect of the attack/ability/spell is being invoked. The wind up and wind down should be able to be broken out of, as in real life you can realistically do this. FFXIV did not have animation lock because it was a good gameplay mechanic- it had it because it mad the graphics more fluid in the absence of animation blending.

You know, as other people have noticed and sometimes criticized me for, I've repeated this a fair few times to different people (but so have the opponents repeated the same things back). So to make everyone jubilant, this is the last time. if you get it, you get it, if you don't, you don't, and that's fine with me.

"I don't like animation lock so it's a bad game design!"

Okay, I'm done here.

[reefo]

Animation lock was absolute shit, I don't even understand how anyone could defend it's usefulness. Immersion is not an excuse for a poor design that inhibits players so greatly. You can not have a battle that requires mobility with very quick reaction times and then have players locked into animations for 3 seconds. It's absolutely asinine.

The arguments that it made for tactical gameplay are completely wrong and simply white knighting a terrible terrible terrible system. The only way you could possibly defend it, is if the battle was a stationary battle and moving was not required but timing of attacks was. This is not how the game was designed however and so the animation lock system was absolute garbage and that is why we won't be seeing it in ARR. Animation lock + Mobility Fights = Full retard Battle System.

It's gone for good and the game is 100% better because of it.

[Shougun]

Animation lock was absolute shit, I don't even understand how anyone could defend it's usefulness. Immersion is not an excuse for a poor design that inhibits players so greatly. You can not have a battle that requires mobility with very quick reaction times and then have players locked into animations for 3 seconds. It's absolutely asinine.

The arguments that it made for tactical gameplay are completely wrong and simply white knighting a terrible terrible terrible system. The only way you could possibly defend it, is if the battle was a stationary battle and moving was not required but timing of attacks was. This is not how the game was designed however and so the animation lock system was absolute garbage and that is why we won't be seeing it in ARR. Animation lock + Mobility Fights = Full retard Battle System.

It's gone for good and the game is 100% better because of it.

I'm curious how some people thought it was immersion though.

I can punch and run, I can swing a sword and run, I can even shoot a bow and run (though honestly I can't hit shit then lol).

Animation lock (on everything) is NOT immersion, in fact its anti-immersion.

There are however some moves that would make sense you couldn't alter while in action, in particular leaps and jumps - if I dash jump into the air it really doesn't make sense I can turn around at the same time or alter course of the jump except for tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny amounts of mid air adjustment for landing.

[GodseijuroHiko]

I'm curious how some people thought it was immersion though.

I can punch and run, I can swing a sword and run, I can even shoot a bow and run (though honestly I can't hit shit then lol).

Animation lock (on everything) is NOT immersion, in fact its anti-immersion.

There are however some moves that would make sense you couldn't alter while in action, in particular leaps and jumps - if I dash jump into the air it really doesn't make sense I can turn around at the same time or alter course of the jump except for tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny amounts of mid air adjustment for landing.

That's basically all people have been trying to say. Seems like a lot of work though, adding lock for some moves and others. Then it'll turn into frame advantage! People will definitely hate that! Removing ani-lock was probably for the best.