NINJA...New Pet Class!

[Duelle]

'stupid' way? are *you* stupid? it was completely ingenious. are you sore you've never thought up anything innovative and unexpected like that in an MMO?

Odd, as I normally agree with you, but...

Not sure if trolling.

Ninja tanks are iconoclastic to how ninja are presented, both in Final Fantasy and in pretty much all fiction that's ever used them. The ninja strikes from the shadows and is as quick as the night. He's not the center of attention in a fight because they wouldn't last as long against foes the way a knight in armor would.

That's not mentioning that gameplay choice was dead once Utsusemi tanking became mainstream. There were no DPS and tank specs for NIN.

are you guys all sore because NIN was more popular for exp? obviously they'd be more popular- they did more damage and required less healing, leading to faster chains.

Which alone borked class balance during the leveling experience. PLD becoming the "well, we might as well take him because we can't find a NIN" type of choice is beyond unfair when PLD was designed from the ground up to tank.

Let us not forget that up until the increase in AoE use for encounters and the change to make AoE wipe Utsusemi, NIN tanks could laugh at things that would tear a PLD to pieces.

[syntaxlies]

Fusional with rosey ffxi nostalgia goggles lol ....people made SE rip their hair off on NIN as they insisted in making it do what it was not supposed to ..nerf after nerf and people kept at it till SE gave up ..but with FFXIV engine that ain't happening ..what other FF games have NIN and how it is used in them?

What does the engine have to do with se listening to complainers and netting jobs?

On topic ninja shouldn't have a pet but should use this

[Duelle]

If you want to make PLD be a little bit more beefier in the dps department then fine - but right now he sucks at everything but tanking, and to suggest someone to be better then him at that would be very poor balancing.

So either ensure other classes cant supplant PLD in his sole purpose or buff him in another purpose and it doesnt matter (because then he has more then one purpose).

Want to add Agrias in FFT would be perfect reason to buff PLD damage, Agrias was a beast.. lol

(And giving him a hybrid purpose would let trade off scenarios be balanced - but being mono purposed no trade off situation would be balanced)

Fixed for you.

[Wyyote]

why? because people constantly change and adapt. so let them, and stop crying.

because in the end, people STILL needed and wanted whm, and people STILL needed and wanted PLD. just because they weren't the most efficient in EVERY GIVEN SITUATION...

So, I kind of agree with this train of thought. Jobs are always evolving based on content, and if a player is able to use a job in an unexpected way, then so be it. If it becomes the norm, then SE, and the community will adapt accordingly. In XI it was all about earning EXP in the most efficient means possible, not about which job "could" do the role. Hopefully ARR creates situations where the end result is the same, but the party makeup and tactics could vary wildly.

Take the MNK or BLM strategy on Chimera. Both work well, it's just a matter of preference and play style.

[stanleyyoung]

Hmm yeah idea of a job.. because jobs arent ideas.. "I'm a thief but I cast black mage spells only"

No. PLD is focused at being the best tank- if he is not the best tank then he needs to be good at something else or whatever is being "scenario-ly" better then him needs to be nerfed.

If you want to make PLD be a little bit more beefier in the dps department then fine - but right now he sucks at everything but tanking, and to suggest someone to be better then him at that would be very poor balancing.

So either ensure other classes cant supplant PLD in his sole purpose or buff him in another purpose and it doesnt matter (because then he has more then one purpose).

Want to add cecil in FF4 would be perfect reason to buff PLD damage, cecil was a beast.. lol

(And giving him a hybrid purpose would let trade off scenarios be balanced - but being mono purposed no trade off situation would be balanced)

SE in this case could give pld the ability to tank or dd having the same options warrior had with rampage and berserk. if they don't make it the best tank then allow it to adapt and change or make it the best tank and leave it alone and not make other jobs able to do what it can do.

i like tanking, its my main and i guess im weird that way but im open to the idea and reality of having different types of tanks.: eva & dmg, High def & self heals/buffs, High dmg & assisted heals/enmity + moves, etc etc all for different types of scenarios and tasks. my fear is that one tank will become superior to all and then we have the problem that this job is now longer viable or only good for one thing now since its not practical for tanking anymore... I will/do have to admit that warrior in 14 is cool i can tank and then switch and dd the next according to the party set up and given situation. If pld in 14 had that same ability it would have been even better i can see it right now...

And just to put it out their warrior as a tank was good using rampage and some might have doubted war as a dd but it using berserk was pretty damn good. Some may have never used it to dd or were never given the chance to dd due to ppl saying tank or leave, or its sub par etc etc.

[Shurrikhan]

No. PLD is focused at being the best tank- if he is not the best tank then he needs to be good at something else.

If you want to make PLD be a little bit more beefier in the dps department then fine - but right now he sucks at everything but tanking, and to suggest someone to be better then him at that would be very poor balancing.

So either ensure other classes cant supplant PLD in his sole purpose or buff him in another purpose and it doesnt matter (because then he has more then one purpose).

Want to add cecil in FF4 would be perfect reason to buff PLD damage, cecil was a beast.. lol

(And giving him a hybrid purpose would let trade off scenarios be balanced - but being mono purposed no trade off situation would be balanced)

This. While I agree with fusional that we may be a bit "job Idea" obsessed--or at least, I certainly am--a bit more love on the developer's part of the diversity in the "idea" of a class definitely seems a better solution than every player being quicker to turn to the new best-of-patch situational class-stack.

I don't see why Paladins can't follow paths other than the sword-and-holy-board defender. I would like that a really good Ninja who has adapted his character to be the absolute best at certain types of tanking could outdo a paladin in those specific instances. On the same token, I don't see why a Paladin can't make one hell of a hard-line push offense with key bonuses usable against undead, empowering from light elements and additional damage vs. dark element enemies, etc (without being situation-locked to those types).

Any balancing tension from patch to patch comes first from the rigidity given to the jobs by their original development, even if player biases may ingrain these distinctions later. In either case, this "take it or leave it" mentality is not ideal (this job will work for this and never for that, so just level a Warrior, BLM, and MNK already). I don't know why people are oft to treat it like the bread and butter of (online gaming) life, when there are choices other than grain for this already optional meal. Better design is possible.

[Rustyhagun]

Its amazing how limited and short sighted people are in terms of jobs and the future of XIV. If we can stop looking backwards at XI and be open to new and creative ways of bringing a fresh face to this game, it could turn out to really worthwhile.

Looking at Ninja from a new perspective:

Solo play.

The ninja, using their high evasion and shadowy skills, preys upon the creatures of Eorzea. Singling out solo targets, ninjas rely on a number of tools to defeat their foes. Deadly two-handed attacks, debilitating Ninjutsu magic, and various projectile weapons are all of part of their arsenal. And always by their side, aiding them in battle, is their spirit animal!

These spirit animals could be quested for (think wolf, anole, coerul, etc.) and then given a particular parameter that fits the players style (tank, dd, support). To balance this in terms of party play (because we know people will), the spirit animal can only be summoned as a 5 minute ability that does a powerful attack. When solo, the spirit animal is summoned until defeated with a 2 minute cooldown after death.


Having the flexibility to have both party and solo play that fits within the background of the Ninja class makes for a fun and unique experience. As for the prerequisite job, I imagine Thief would be a fit, with a number of status effect moves and evasion/sneak attack related skills.

Thoughts?

Nice ideas. Thief needs to be its own job though. So maybe Assassin -> Ninja, since classes are just random names that are closely related to the Job its going to become.

I think Pilferer -> Thief would be a good match.

[Warlock]

Nice ideas. Thief needs to be its own job though. So maybe Assassin -> Ninja, since classes are just random names that are closely related to the Job its going to become.

I think Pilferer -> Thief would be a good match.

Yeah or Mugger

[Duelle]

I don't see why Paladins can't follow paths other than the sword-and-holy-board defender.

I would have agreed to this--if we had no armoury system and instead did advanced class progression for each job. You can then justify PLD having a tank skill set and DPS skill set. That ship already sailed, though.

Any balancing tension from patch to patch comes first from the rigidity given to the jobs by their original development, even if player biases may ingrain these distinctions later. In either case, this "take it or leave it" mentality is not ideal (this job will work for this and never for that, so just level a Warrior, BLM, and MNK already).

The mentality is there because people can change jobs, which is the easy way out without dealing with the problem. It's one of the downsides of open choice.

[stanleyyoung]

This. While I agree with fusional that we may be a bit "job Idea" obsessed--or at least, I certainly am--a bit more love on the developer's part of the diversity in the "idea" of a class definitely seems a better solution than every player being quicker to turn to the new best-of-patch situational class-stack.

I don't see why Paladins can't follow paths other than the sword-and-holy-board defender. I would like that a really good Ninja who has adapted his character to be the absolute best at certain types of tanking could outdo a paladin in those specific instances. On the same token, I don't see why a Paladin can't make one hell of a hard-line push offense with key bonuses usable against undead, empowering from light elements and additional damage vs. dark element enemies, etc (without being situation-locked to those types).

Any balancing tension from patch to patch comes first from the rigidity given to the jobs by their original development, even if player biases may ingrain these distinctions later. In either case, this "take it or leave it" mentality is not ideal (this job will work for this and never for that, so just level a Warrior, BLM, and MNK already). I don't know why people are oft to treat it like the bread and butter of (online gaming) life, when we there are choices other than grain for this already optional meal. Better design is possible.

Given that we have the class to job system for 14 jobs (even classes too a little bit) being able to take multiple paths will recreate the mess and problems that 1.0 had in the beginning before any revisions and changes. The time period when ppl said whats the difference between this and that & what really is the class "role". No one really could answer the question fully since we had so much freedom and customization that practically everything was interchangeable and nothing was unique.

Once we had the revisions and changes classes somewhat were better for solo then jobs and classes had the ability to be played differently with some customization. Jobs then were really designed to be played and used for even a more defined role then the class. i could see gladiator being able to take multiple paths since its a class and then can have a varying play style but if pld would have the same ability then the role it supposed/designed to play can change somewhat or would not be fulfilled.

Like i said before with mrd having rampage & berserk allowing it to tank then dd next, gladiator having the same thing would allow it to do the same. If SE decides to have 2 jobs per class then mrd would have the ability to tank/dd with rampage/berserk it could have warrior job to be designed to only tank the best in its way using rampage and lets say dark knight dd the best in its way using berserk.

i personally see what we have now with the class-job system is good groundwork its just that it needs to be worked on and finished so we can see the final complete product. knowing that i could/can play a said class two different ways is cool along with them being efficient in doing either task but also knowing more that the jobs that branches from them are the best at the role like none other is good too. Im eager to see how everything has changed class/job wise for 2.0 once beta hits to really see how much they have improved and how well balanced everything is.