Pet Classes /Personalization/?

[SodRansom]

Oh, and Warlock...multiple pets...yes please lol. I was always so jealous of the beastmaster npc's in Campaign when they pulled out more than one pet.

[Orophin]

It seems like the chocobo you raise is going to be the pet you make an attachment to. It's been said you can raise them to be damage dealers, tanks or healers and that they're supposed to have a gambit system.

As far as a class dedicated to pets, seems like Arcanist is going to be it for now with Carbuncle. Who knows what they have in store for the future, but Yoshi-P has already shown interest in Samurai and Ninja so it may be a while before we see another class like BST or PUP.

[Shougun]

Yeah I hear ya with the no soul or personality. And I agree with you as far as jug pets go. I guess with charmed mobs though I always felt like they did have a personality, albeit not the same kind as a puppet might. I can see how with pup it's nice because you have the same puppet that you can build up and customize, and you grow attached to as you go up in levels. But I think that the beastmaster charmed pets also had a personality, but a different kind. There's was more of a wild, untamed personality. As you start charming the same mobs over and over you start building up a connection with them, and you have memories about monsters that you killed together. For example, in the La Vaule zone of ffxi, I feel a huge affinity with those pugs down in the trenches. I killed so many of those La Vaule nms in that zone with those little dudes...and they got me killed more often than not too lol.

But that's another thing about bst that I hope they keep. That element of danger that accompanied the job. You never knew whether a charm was going to succeed or not. And while it was usually a reliable skill, the fact that it might fail made the job really exciting. True, you're going to bitch and moan when the charm fails right when you need it the most, but that danger element made the job really attractive to me. That's another reason I don't want a kind of beastmaster that just gets a pet familiar that follows him around. That seems like a cop out. There's no danger there, your pet will follow you around no matter what. There's nothing that separates a good beastmaster from a bad one really.

Thats interesting as well, the desire for the animals to actually remain in a sense wild. Never fully tamed?

I wonder if they would be willing to create some sort of aggro push system, where you try to balance using skills that restore the tamed state and skills that let out the wild state (so you are always juggling this resource in order to maximize output but stay in control of the pet), perhaps skill costs increase if used in short succession (assuming a low cooldown) so trying to face roll your keyboard would lose your animal. If you lose your animals state, or if he dies, is there a way to bring him back or the connection is only as long as he lives? So you would still be cycling pets just not as often?


Does it mean you wouldnt want to see raising a pet, or getting to a state were the pet is very loyal? Perhaps certain animal types can get to a certain height of loyalty, like a drake is almost always going to be on the brink of being lost- but a dodo you may actually fully tame with a sense of sanity left over.

Chocobo sort of counts as a pet to grow with but I'd like to go out and find an animal and start out fresh that way- would also like to see the process of loyalty come from weeks and months of training and not like 10 mins like in WoW.

Perhaps that can show the difference in beastmasters as well, all this would probably make beastmaster a really slow class though lol. BOB use more we need more help! "Hold on! I'm trimming my drakes nails and scrubbing under his scales!" NOW "NO I WORKED REALLY HARD TO GET HIM NOT TO HATE ME! ITS BEEN WEEKS!!" (Loyalty would basically buffer the aggro push system into a happy to unhappy state, where at a certain place in the unhappy-o-meter the pet goes back to being wild and for being a bad beastmaster you have to retame lol)

Thoughts? :P

[Tonkra]

Puppets on the other hand are just tools

no they arent.. a puppet also felt like it had a soul. and was bond to me

i felt like being with a vivi alike thing around.


and i hate taming monsters personally.. because they are so "standard".. standard monsters which you fight in battle... and you have hundreds of hundreds tamer classes especially since hunter in WoW...
thats why i prefer puppetmaster over beastmaster. its fresh and different.

but unfortunatley i think they go with beastmaster first -_-

Thats interesting as well, the desire for the animals to actually remain in a sense wild. Never fully tamed?

its not an interesting system... it was an annoying mess in FFXI. and the reason why no one EVER invited a beastmaster into his group, when there is a huge risk to get hit by his own pet each time.

Trust me, Dark Age of Camelot had also some kind of system... in the end after 10 years now.. they ended up with permanent charm, because no one used that other charm anymore.. it was too ineffective.

you can do it like that... monster with the same level as yours -> permanent charm... level above yours -> charm which can resist from time to time.

Yeah I hear ya with the no soul or personality. And I agree with you as far as jug pets go. I guess with charmed mobs though I always felt like they did have a personality, albeit not the same kind as a puppet might. I can see how with pup it's nice because you have the same puppet that you can build up and customize, and you grow attached to as you go up in levels. But I think that the beastmaster charmed pets also had a personality, but a different kind. There's was more of a wild, untamed personality. As you start charming the same mobs over and over you start building up a connection with them, and you have memories about monsters that you killed together. For example, in the La Vaule zone of ffxi, I feel a huge affinity with those pugs down in the trenches. I killed so many of those La Vaule nms in that zone with those little dudes...and they got me killed more often than not too lol.

But that's another thing about bst that I hope they keep. That element of danger that accompanied the job. You never knew whether a charm was going to succeed or not. And while it was usually a reliable skill, the fact that it might fail made the job really exciting. True, you're going to bitch and moan when the charm fails right when you need it the most, but that danger element made the job really attractive to me. That's another reason I don't want a kind of beastmaster that just gets a pet familiar that follows him around. That seems like a cop out. There's no danger there, your pet will follow you around no matter what. There's nothing that separates a good beastmaster from a bad one really.

seperates a good between a bad beastmaster?! ah come on.. the charm system itself did not need anything like "skill"

the charm did not last longer if you were a good or a bad beastmaster.. there was a time when the charm broke for 100%.
i think that kind of charm system sucked (i knew that kind of charm system already from the minstrel in Dark Age of Camelot).

To make the beastmaster useful for a group it'd be better for them to implement a permanent charm..
to be a useful party member in an instance the beastmaster should be able to... dont know.. to have about 3-5 "save slots" to save his personal pets. and call them wherever he wants to.


thats the only way to make him an attractive job for groups and instanced raids. a charm which we know in FFXI just sucked. and that was the reason why it was a solo class.


give him about 3-5 save slots for his personal pets (like the skill slots for the blue mage in FFXI). so that he can call his pets wherever he is (in instances etc).. and make him able to exchange his existing pets against new ones.

[Shougun]

its not an interesting system... it was an annoying mess in FFXI. and the reason why no one EVER invited a beastmaster into his group, when there is a huge risk to get hit by his own pet each time.

Trust me, Dark Age of Camelot had also some kind of system... in the end after 10 years now.. they ended up with permanent charm, because no one used that other charm anymore.. it was too ineffective.

you can do it like that... monster with the same level as yours -> permanent charm... level above yours -> charm which can resist from time to time.

I think they could change it so when the pet disobeys it perhaps runs away or like pokemon says "rush evolved Charzard: F U" and does nothing. In this way they are not a threat to be invited to party. Since a beastmaster relies on their pet fully it is still quite punishing to have your damage output lock up because of poor play. Say taking in that balancing act idea in my post, instead of the monster beating you to shit he does something a little less realistic so beastmasters are not a threat to the party.

[Tonkra]

I think they could change it so when the pet disobeys it perhaps runs away or like pokemon says "rush evolved Charzard: F U" and does nothing. In this way they are not a threat to be invited to party. Since a beastmaster relies on their pet fully it is still quite punishing to have your damage output lock up because of poor play. Say taking in that balancing act idea in my post, instead of the monster beating you to shit he does something a little less realistic so beastmasters are not a threat to the party.

thats no solution.

imagine a bossfight against garuda with a beastmaster in party.. after 3 minutes "oh sorry guys.. my pet ran away"
do you REALLY think a beastmaster would get invited then anymore? a beastmasters positive aspect is his pet and its monsterskills. when he loses it many times within a fight its nothing more than ineffective, useless and annoying of course.
the only guys who liked that job in FFXI have been pure soloist players or masochists. the system itself was just poorly bad. (and that opinion coming from a person who loves pet jobs)


and isnt it better to have a real "companion" with you as a beastmaster instead of always wild and timid pets who run away how they want to? Does a wild horse run away after you succeeded taming it?..

so i say:

for the pet itself:
- permant charm (at least for monster at the same level as you)
- about 5 save slots for different beasts to make the beastmaster be able to call his pets even in an instanced raid.
- maybe a restistable charm for pets that are higher than your level, with the risk of breaking the charm (giving BST the option to charm higher monsters)


to make him a useful class for groups.. and of course.. less ANNOYING..
the resistable charm would give BST the option to charm mobs, that are at a higher level with a risk that they can break the charm at anytime.

besides that they should give BST other skills to push his own damage.. like:

for the BST:
- berserk mode (boosts melee damage, reduces defense)
- savagery (boosts evasion and acc)
- transfer pain to the pet for a certain time (20% ish)
- sacrifice pet (regain HP + stat boost for a certain time)
- use horn to call one of your saved beasts


because a pet only does not grant you a place in a party. when they are going to introduce BST they should do a bit more than just a charm skill.

[Shougun]

thats no solution.

imagine a bossfight against garuda with a beastmaster in party.. after 3 minutes "oh sorry guys.. my pet ran away"
do you REALLY think a beastmaster would get invited then anymore? a beastmasters positive aspect is his pet and its monsterskills. when he loses it many times within a fight its nothing more than ineffective, useless and annoying of course.
the only guys who liked that job in FFXI have been pure soloist players or masochists. the system itself was just bad.


and isnt it better to have a real "companion" with you as a beastmaster instead of always wild and timid pets who run away how they want to? Does a wild horse run away after you succeeded taming it?..

so i say:

- permant charm (at least for monster at the same level as you)
- about 5 save slots for different beasts to make the beastmaster be able to call his pets even in an instanced raid.
- maybe a restistable charm for pets that are higher than your level (but no option to save it to your pet reportoir, more or less the same crappy charm skill like in FFXI)


to make him a useful class for groups.. and of course.. less ANNOYING..
the resistable charm would give BST the option to charm mobs, that are at a higher level.

I meant the pet would runaway but be within tameable radius (and stay non aggro unless you left it alone for a long time, in which it would despawn).

And yes I think so. If you make the beastmaster able to do enough damage that they can balance their animal then its fine.

It would be just like a Blackmage using their mana, some do it poorly others do it really well no one kicks a black mage out because they can go to 0 magic and are useless.

Also having your pet grow in loyalty would make the pet easier to juggle in its wild / tame side so as a beastmaster you could distinctively feel play difference between your wild and non wild pets.

So a loyal pet that you piss off would maybe disobey for a second but stay put, perhaps when getting attacked personally the pet will never disobey (loyal pets will defend their master without thought of self) because I dont buy the cast one spell and you have a fully tamed pet idea. But I also agree that having a full on pet is way more enjoyable then something that hates you and something you just send off to die lol.

[Elexia]

Puppets on the other hand are just tools

Using this logic pets in most other generic MMORPGs are just tools as well because the majority were only useful for:

1. Riding
2. Auto Attacking a.k.a aiding in your DPS.

That is the definition of being a tool. Automata were much more than just "tools" but if you actually played FFXI and actually played PUP, I'm betting you were one of those PUPs who only had the basic 8 attachments and wondered why it did nothing useful.

The storyline itself should tell you they're more than just tools..and hell, the fact it (along with SMNs and their Avatars) has storylines already put it above what the majority of MMOs does with their pet systems. Not to mention, the differences in behavior with the 3 pet jobs was explained pretty well in game:

1. Avatars have a pact with you and depending on that pact affects their behavior, i.e Avatars will auto attack anything that attacks you because their pact is to protect and serve you for proving your worth against them, exception being Carbuncle who joins you of her own free will.

2. Jug Pets are mindless monsters that need guidance to do more than just what their nature intended, thus why them along with Charmed Monsters won't give a shit if your face is being ripped off. The reason enemy Beastmaster's pets attack is due to the fact they have automated mechanics from being NPCs. Something easily changed.

3. Puppetmaster's automata aren't soul less tools, they actually have a soul and they grow with you as long as you program them properly, which is why without proper programming, they won't be as efficient. Their efficiency also lays in how well you as the master know how to use and maintain maneuvers.

This is probably why they're going the cop-out route and using the "essences" system for SMN.

Btw, you're less likely to have a bond with a war lion or war elephant bred only for transport and killing because chances are they weren't bred by you than you are with programmable A.I designed and maintained to your spec, just sayin.

[Tonkra]

nobody seems to listen to my suggestions ;XD

[Shougun]

nobody seems to listen to my suggestions ;XD

lol I responded :P

I said yes I think permanent charmed pet is interesting and preferred but unlike auto a beastmaster has to deal with a wild animal - unless they raise that animal. I would think it would be very exciting to raise a pet from a baby (which we can do with chocobos but that's /everyone's/ pet).

Even then beastmasters have to be careful with the wild, like zookeepers don't kick the lion's nuts and expect to get out of the cage alive.

There has to be some distinct differences between puppet and beast because atm it sounds like two classes with permanent pets one is mechanical and one is natural- working on the nuances would help but even that.. I'm curious if they are too similar.

A part of the reason I wanted to see what people thought. I like the comments going on about the puppetmaster, specially since I never played them- I quit before trying all the classes :P.

Btw, you're less likely to have a bond with a war lion or war elephant bred only for transport and killing because chances are they weren't bred by you than you are with programmable A.I designed and maintained to your spec, just sayin.

Did you literally write code, or are you just saying that metaphorically / through quests and gear? (Like I said, beyond what it says on the wiki I've got no clue lol).

Would love for beastmaster to be able to raise his pets- perhaps the chocobo stables can also be used as a grounds for beastmasters until they own a house. Little baby lambu.. XD