A mounts matter

[Shougun]

Yoshida likes mounts, so wether you like mounts or not.. we know there are going to be quite a selection.

Now one thing I'd like to request Yoshida to do, and I hope we could talk about.

Is that mounts matter - that is, they have stats and application, that they have characteristics and are not just a sort of vanity skin you change moment-ly for dress-up's sake.

Yoshida has confirmed that all mounts will be the same except for bred chocobos which may also be used in combat.

I feel each mount having its own style would not only make the world a greater world (one deeper and further to delve into) but would also allow for unique opportunities and better explanations as well as a sense of customization beyond as I said "dress-up's sake".

Some examples of possible basic changes:

Endurance - Great suggestion by Shurrikhan to help ensure proper formations maintain and better balance mounts. More details:

Honestly, some sort of endurance mechanic could probably fix the difference in speed pretty well. Slow mounts will run a bit faster, pressing their endurance slightly, and fast mounts will build up a bit of bonus endurance in preparation for a raid or whatnot, with a total shared endurance pool averaging out the individuals somewhat. So, the party simply enters a "Caravan Mode" or whatnot and ends up moving at the same pace, given by the total composition of the party, rather than being hampered by any given individual speed.

Best stats will still be differentiated based on class, the fight itself, and party-role, which should be diverse enough as long as the stats as a whole don't enforce class-wide used-for-all-situations formulas (again). I'm really hoping stats will be more adjustable in ARR, for both mounts and their riders.

Even then though, there should also be ways in which a player might stray from role-pure. A white mage may want his personal guard chocobo for instance, armoring him with defensive stats that will in no way benefit the player or the player's role directly. At the same time, that could be used for sticking closer to the front line (if that actually gave benefits in this game...).

Movement speed - and min max speed

Movement acceleration - and min max acceleration

Turn rate - would be good for making chocobo races more like racing games, however it would mean preventing players from turning instantly with the camera which may annoy them. (Use with caution)

Turn radius in relation to speed and acceleration - a compromise of the above, allow players to turn as sharp as they want but it will affect the speed and where to restart the acceleration (% of speed/acc. lost on "too sharp" turns - so a goobbue charges really well but zig zags horribly). You could even make boosts to turns (with duration and nonstackable buff).

Damage tolerence - how much damage will the mount take before becoming lamed or being kicked off

Jump height / Distance - how high and or far a mount may jump (goobbue = -5 :P lol)

Other - good examples and comments by Shurrikhan:

A sprinting mechanic, yes, but it's only for players as far as I've seen, and is simply a TP-consume-for-duration, 20-second CD. It's nothing like being able to actually time your sprints in preparation for a jump.

A dynamic prepared (charged) jump could be fun. I was thinking more of enhancing the actual stat involved through increasing the jump range possible (matching to terrain similar to FFXIII but not as preset; though that may not even be a possible implementation given ARR's engine) and reducing the endurance lost by those actions.

[I imagine a Goobue as doing a ballerina leap. It just doesn't go very far. Yes, it look amazing.]

Tbh, I like Chocobo as my general treasure-finding creature, though Goobue is my botanical treasure-finder of choice. Horses... good at sensing ways out of situations... I don't think of them as being treasure finders.

Given the time I'd probably raise one horse, a Chocobo, another Chocobo, and finally a Goobue, in that order.

As for other mounts, if we don't have enough already... a truffle pig would be awesome. I do kind of want a crazy, kind of dopey-looking wolf mongrel with a case of gigantism though. I'd just want there to be some serious questing (that involve more than your typical quests) to get anything other than the Chocobo and horse, and even then probably more than there is now.

Edit: As far as pain tolerance goes, I was concerned more with being bucked, rather than being lamed. Pain tolerance might also be a factor in being slowed, but honestly if your tendon's been bitten in half, that's more a matter of having not dodged than you're just not "holding up" to the pain well enough. : P
Poor mount.

I'd imagine that Goobues would normally be surprisingly easy to make buck when fleeing (sprinting) [Just try imagining a spooked/bewildered/abruptly confused by the evil in the world Goobue face, and it should all come clear], but fairly hard to lame except from critical hits (aimed at those tiny legs), which will usually require a short time for the Goobue to catch itself as well.

Edit 2: I'd also like some ways in which the player could learn to benefit the mount, such as a Conjurer learning to summon wind behind a Chocobo, who opens its wings to catch said wind, or a (rather cruel) player tossing a firework behind his horse for even more sprinting speed (though at endurance cost, of course, and probably not needed on a higher loyalty-level horse).

With these basic characteristics you could make a coeurl distinct from a chocobo distinct from a goobbue. And yet they are all forms of transportation. You may use any mount to get around and no mount should be explicitly designed to suck unless its just for funnies - but you may consider using a certain mount in certain situations for the best results (like running through a crowd of monsters, or going short distances vs long distances, open terrain/closed terrain).

Chocobo being a general good at all things means those who dont want a specialized mount can be happy never doing that. But perhaps chocobo isnt the best at specific situations (like tanking damage without getting lamed as you run through a camp). (Though choco-gear could specialize chocobos as well).

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One other possible characteristic is abilities.

Here you could have unique abilities on your mount (perhaps a small bar pops up like the icon bars we already see, because UI is customizable this is no problem for user or SE).

Some example abilities -

Leap, leaps onto target dismounting and shortly stunning target
Charge, one direction charge at a bonus movement speed that pushes enemy contacts to the side
Sprint, ...
Shield, increases damage tolerance shortly (perhaps on a magitek he puts up a barrier temporarily)
Flying, gold chocobo - if they do sky content
Swiming, blue chocobo - sea content


The simplicity or elaborateness of abilities, or complete lack, should be decided based on each mount and their obtained level / logic. No requirement for a mount to have 1 each or them to be crazy- only for them to make sense and be balanced in respect to other options. Costs could be anything but most should just be free with cooldowns or introduce some sort of carrot system like Epona in Zelda .

For another example, a particular mount could actually be an orb you cast mana into - and is naturally a slow wisp of aether, but use some of its abilities and you meld into a zipping stream of concentrated aether like a ground level aurora borealis. (If you make DoM mounts then obviously there should be DoW mounts).

--

So "Yes mount uniqueness" or "No keep them the same - minus looks" - if you dont like my examples please suggest others, just examples of mount differences :P

[indira]

they should just make them all the same.

[Kallivis]

Waste of development, imo*. This isn't Nascar or a game where your ride is paramount. Besides, if we gave mounts stats, everyone would end up having the same damn mounts anyway (the best ones) and it would just be another thing people would judge you for, as opposed to "ride whatever the hell you want".

The only stats should be for chocobo racing, which is not applicable on the field. That would be a localized thing at the Gold Saucer place. Maybe a few other minor exceptions, but nothing as crazy as acceleration and turn radius.

*I would rather more focus on story and side content and further development on things already in place as opposed to developing a completely new, unnecessary system out of thin air.

[Shougun]

Waste of development, imo. This isn't Nascar or a game where your ride is paramount. Besides, if we gave mounts stats, everyone would end up having the same damn mounts anyway (the best ones) and it would just be another thing people would judge you for, as opposed to "ride whatever the hell you want".

The only stats should be for chocobo racing, which is not applicable on the field. That would be a localized thing at the Gold Saucer place. Maybe a few other minor exceptions, but nothing as crazy as acceleration and turn radius.

Hardly what I suggested is Nascar :P

And those variables are very simple to implement - the math is highschool. Though if their movement system itself isnt very flexible.. that would make it a lot harder XD

I find all mounts the same a very boring - also mounts at least since he is looking hard at WoW would be released in tiers such that there isnt always "one mount". Because last I checked in WoW there is a huge variety of mounts being used and they have unique stats.

I want a pony like in "The Hobbit".

Bill the pony?!

[Kallivis]

And those variables are very simple to implement - the math is highschool. Though if their movement system itself isnt very flexible.. that would be hard XD

Variables != what it takes to create a game. The math could be as easy as 1+1, that has absolutely nothing to do with creating an engine for an MMORPG played by hundreds of thousands of people*.

*maybe

[Shougun]

Variables != what it takes to create a game. The math could be as easy as 1+1, that has absolutely nothing to do with creating an engine for an MMORPG played by hundreds of thousands of people*.

*maybe

Movement system is already created - so long as I said its flexible it would mostly be variables. If its not flexible.. then yes it could take a lot of work.

[Kallivis]

Movement system is already created - so long as I said its flexible it would mostly be variables. If its not flexible.. then yes it could take a lot of work.

I don't think they had shield/damage tolerance/turn radius/acceleration/leaping/etc. in mind when creating a standard movement system.

Who knows, maybe they did. Maybe they're crazy enough to have foresight on this sort of idea and have something planned for it in the future.

Regardless of if they did or didn't, I think it's a bad idea. Personally, I wouldn't want this sort of thing in the game as I think it would cause more harm than good. I want mounts to be solely aesthetic, as I'll be damned if I'll be told what to ride just as what I'm told what to wear to endgame.

Next, we'll have vanity slots for our mounts. That way we can have our standard chocobo or coeurl that has an energy shield and can fly and run 10000 mph and fire missiles!

[Linkurrra]

Hardly what I suggested is Nascar :P

And those variables are very simple to implement - the math is highschool. Though if their movement system itself isnt very flexible.. that would make it a lot harder XD

I find all mounts the same a very boring - also mounts at least since he is looking hard at WoW would be released in tiers such that there isnt always "one mount". Because last I checked in WoW there is a huge variety of mounts being used and they have unique stats.



Bill the pony?!

It's not a matter of what you suggested. It's what ppl will do with it *IF* it is implemented.
Mounts of different speeds just cause problems in parties trying to stay together when moving from one location to another.
If you add combat stats to them, variety goes out the window because everybody is getting mounts based on stats not what they look like! So everybody will strive to get the so called "best" one.

So in the end it's best if they preform exactly the same. You can differentiate mounts by looks, style, and animation.
Animation being, horses neigh and chocobo's KWEH! when you hit a special key standing still etc. You could also make them do special emotes unique to the mount. Like /feed makes a chocobo peck at the ground, or /strut makes them scratch the ground in place with their feet.

I liked how XI handled it where all mounts were the same except rented vs. owned. Owned of course were a bit faster.

Then there was the Chocobo riding gear that made the riding time for your chocobo longer! This gear could also let you run faster! Or special gear will allow you to dig with your chocobo! The same could be done for any mount.

Lastly, we have chocobo raising. This will probably add a whole host of features for chocobo's. Which probably include the speed that Shougun is looking for. With the amount of work that you will need to put into a chocobo to raise it to be of a certain speed. the difference would definitely be earned! I was quite proud of my green chocobo in XI! PITA, to do! but the sense of achievement was awesome!

[Shougun]

It's not a matter of what you suggested. It's what ppl will do with it *IF* it is implemented.
Mounts of different speeds just cause problems in parties trying to stay together when moving from one location to another.
If you add combat stats to them, variety goes out the window because everybody is getting mounts based on stats not what they look like! So everybody will strive to get the so called "best" one.

So in the end it's best if they preform exactly the same. You can differentiate mounts by looks, style, and animation.
Animation being, horses neigh and chocobo's KWEH! when you hit a special key standing still etc. You could also make them do special emotes unique to the mount. Like /feed makes a chocobo peck at the ground, or /strut makes them scratch the ground in place with their feet.

I liked how XI handled it where all mounts were the same except rented vs. owned. Owned of course were a bit faster.

Then there was the Chocobo riding gear that made the riding time for your chocobo longer! This gear could also let you run faster! Or special gear will allow you to dig with your chocobo! The same could be done for any mount.

Lastly, we have chocobo raising. This will probably add a whole host of features for chocobo's. Which probably include the speed that Shougun is looking for. With the amount of work that you will need to put into a chocobo to raise it to be of a certain speed. the difference would definitely be earned! I was quite proud of my green chocobo in XI! PITA, to do! but the sense of achievement was awesome!

Its why I listed a few variables actually, I figured some people may pick the fastest if thats the only stat like in WoW. Although in WoW people often rode their favorites anyways lol.

So for example a mount has the highest max speed but a slower acceleration, or high of both and higher chance of being lamed (unarmored horse). Certainly some mounts may become particular to certain situations, but as they should. Armored mounts when going into an area where you will be under constant fire- that is how it should be. Go in with a naked mount and boom your dead lol. However you may be able to let other players go in with say a magitek while you go in with a zippy choco (or you are just a good weaver and you can dodge all the monsters hits).

I can imagine it would both increase and decrease diversity. If done properly it would be at a meaningless point to qualify and all that is left is the fact that now mounts have their own characteristics rather then silly 'coeurl is as slow as a goobbue as fast as a chocobo'.

Its a dangerous game I admit, but one I feel is worth playing - specially with chocobos appearing to be so featured (I'd prefer to see no other mounts if they arent going to be poised in a logical manor, just have an awesome chocobo system). Allowing /other/ mounts to be featured a little can also let chocobos have more leeway in the matter of what can be modified / raised out of them.

[Shurrikhan]

It's not a matter of what you suggested. It's what ppl will do with it *IF* it is implemented.
Mounts of different speeds just cause problems in parties trying to stay together when moving from one location to another.
If you add combat stats to them, variety goes out the window because everybody is getting mounts based on stats not what they look like! So everybody will strive to get the so called "best" one.

Honestly, some sort of endurance mechanic could probably fix the difference in speed pretty well. Slow mounts will run a bit faster, pressing their endurance slightly, and fast mounts will build up a bit of bonus endurance in preparation for a raid or whatnot, with a total shared endurance pool averaging out the individuals somewhat. So, the party simply enters a "Caravan Mode" or whatnot and ends up moving at the same pace, given by the total composition of the party, rather than being hampered by any given individual speed.

Best stats will still be differentiated based on class, the fight itself, and party-role, which should be diverse enough as long as the stats as a whole don't enforce class-wide used-for-all-situations formulas (again). I'm really hoping stats will be more adjustable in ARR, for both mounts and their riders.

Even then though, there should also be ways in which a player might stray from role-pure. A white mage may want his personal guard chocobo for instance, armoring him with defensive stats that will in no way benefit the player or the player's role directly. At the same time, that could be used for sticking closer to the front line (if that actually gave benefits in this game...).