Peer-to-Peer immersive voice communication

[Dannythm]

This thread is for the devs to see because it's really (and I mean really) technical, but any discussion will be welcomed as well of course.

So I was looking for papers to use as reference for my current work, and I bumped into this one, and as it's more or less recent, (it was presented in ICPADS 2011 conference, in Tainan, Taiwan), I thought maybe the devs didn't knew about it:

Peer-to-Peer Immersive Voice Communication for Massively Multiplayer Online Games (It's a IEEExplore link, so unless you have an account or access from some University you cannot access the full text, but I'm sure Square Enix has plenty of engineers who have IEEE accounts).

So in short, this paper presents a system to include voice chat in MMO's without being a source hog, quoting from the introduction of the paper:

Text chat is the most common way for players to exchange messages with each other by keyboard typing, which will distract players from the gameplay. With the richer and richer game content media and gameplay styles, voice chat may be a better way of communication.

[...]

Currently, most MMOGs are based on the client/server architecture, which has the inherent limitation on scalability due to the constraint on available network bandwidth and computing resources. In such a case, additional voice transmission will seriously degrade the scalability of the MMOGs. Third-party voice communication software, such
as TeamSpeak, Skype and Ventrilo, may be a transitional solution to meet the needs of voice communication in MMOGs. However, when using these kinds of software programs, users have to manually solicit members of a collaborative team or a special community to form a conversation group. These third-party voice programs lack the mechanism to synchronize with the states of games. When the game state changes, the users have to manually adapt their contact list of the voice communication program to fit the dynamic conditions of the games. Moreover, the
programs are also based on the server/client architecture and thus suffer from the scalability problem.

[...]

In this paper, we propose a peer-to-peer voice communication scheme, called immersive voice communication (IVC), to provide MMOG players with the immersive experience to hear the voice of neighbor players within the area of interest (AOI). For a player, its AOI is the area of a circle centered at it of a fixed radius, and it only interacts with other players within the area. By observing human behavior, we have found that a person usually intentionally ignore the surrounding sound when he/she
focuses on a specific voice. Therefore, a player’s AOI neighbors are classified into two categories: the listener, who focuses on listening to the player, and the overhearer, who just overhears the talk of the player. In is noted that the latter consumes much less bandwidth than the former, which can be utilized to reduce the traffic load. We also develop a relation model for a player to determine which AOI neighbor to listen to according to the criteria such as the distance, orientation, and social relationship among the players. IVC is constructed on the basis of the peer-to-peer (P2P) overlay network. It can be integrated into existing MMOGs to render them with the voice communication ability without causing too much additional loads to them.

I won't quote more, because the rest is just technical stuff about how they achieve that and some early experimental results that look really promising, if anyone wants more info I'll gladly explain the stuff a bit more deeply, but with those fragments from the introduction I think it will be enough to give the general idea.

Anyway, I would for sure LOVE to see this implemented in FFXIV ARR, but as always, with a toggle on/off option, because we know not everyone is always as polite as they should be, but this would add a lot of immersion and depth on the game.

[Zehira]

http://kotaku.com/5720506/its-not-ea...ld-of-warcraft

I know it's not for me and I have no discussion about it because it's what most of you guys want it but I'll be watching this thread...

[KaplanHomahru]

Interesting info, sounds like neat tech...

but if you look through previous discussions on the topic/Yoshi's quotes you'll realize that even though it's technically possible, they don't want to officially incorporate in-game voice chat for various reasons. they prefer groups/free companies reach an agreement with third party programs if they want to use it

[Dannythm]

http://kotaku.com/5720506/its-not-ea...ld-of-warcraft

I know it's not for me and I have no discussion about it because it's what most of you guys want it but I'll be watching this thread...

I don't think this relates much to my original point but I don't think a game should lack features because a minority of the potential customers have a disability. I'm all for adding user friendliness and all for everyone, but in no way cut possible great tech because of a minority, else all visual artists should be doing all their work so color blind people could have the same game experience as everyone else, then everyone else probably wouldn't want to play the game.

Interesting info, sounds like neat tech...

but if you look through previous discussions on the topic/Yoshi's quotes you'll realize that even though it's technically possible, they don't want to officially incorporate in-game voice chat for various reasons. they prefer groups/free companies reach an agreement with third party programs if they want to use it

Well, maybe he didn't knew about this tech, I just posted it because I thought it could be really awesome to have in the game, so the devs see this thread and have one more option to consider for the future.

[Zenaku]

Interesting info, sounds like neat tech...

but if you look through previous discussions on the topic/Yoshi's quotes you'll realize that even though it's technically possible, they don't want to officially incorporate in-game voice chat for various reasons. they prefer groups/free companies reach an agreement with third party programs if they want to use it

Ya they said they would have to talk to Sony and waste money to make it work. Also harassment would happen a lot and i remember one of the old dev team saying it would be NA doing a lot to the JP. Or a lot of male doing it to females and i think that one of the reason they said they don't want too beside the cost with sony.

[Abriael]

It is interesting, as peer to peer doesn't place much additional strain on the server, and the client terminal normally has a crapton of bandwidth to spare (unless the user is torrenting porn, I guess). Of course it would have to be opt-in, as many don't enjoy the chatter, or to be heard themselves.

It would be especially useful for controller users, as reaching for your keyboard in certain situations is not exactly practical.

[JillyBean]

Reply to OP - I have always been a big fan of the game itself implementing it's own voice chat system, where there could be party chat and/or linkshell chat, obviously being able to turn it on or off. I've heard Yoshi has said no on this due to the multi-language nature of this game. Players that are against it cite that a) it would cause voice chat to be the "norm" and ppl would be bullied into using it, or being ignored. Others say "we have vent/mumble and we don't need it and we'll continue to use vent/mumble anyway." I am not sure what I think anymore, but I would like to have the option. It just sounds like something obvious that should be made part of a modern MMO.

Reply to Zehira - I read the article you linked. My thought is only that I would never have a linkshell like that or join a linkshell like that. There is no way that any linkshell I have ever been a part of (6+ yrs of XI and the last few months of XIV) would ever treat a member like that. We would never treat anyone like that, and accommodations would be made. I don't know if that is the nature of WoW or if that is just one a-hole guild leader.

[CamAlch]

Reply to Zehira - I read the article you linked. My thought is only that I would never have a linkshell like that or join a linkshell like that. There is no way that any linkshell I have ever been a part of (6+ yrs of XI and the last few months of XIV) would ever treat a member like that. We would never treat anyone like that, and accommodations would be made. I don't know if that is the nature of WoW or if that is just one a-hole guild leader.

I have to agree here, the situation presented in the article here is not the rule it is the exception. Or at least I think it would be in the Final Fantasy community.

In my 12 years of playing various MMOs, I have been a part of many guilds, none of which would have handled the situation like that. However I have also never played WoW, so I can't speak to the nature of their community. Although I can't say that I've heard many good things. :S

[Zehira]

Reply to Zehira - I read the article you linked. My thought is only that I would never have a linkshell like that or join a linkshell like that. There is no way that any linkshell I have ever been a part of (6+ yrs of XI and the last few months of XIV) would ever treat a member like that. We would never treat anyone like that, and accommodations would be made. I don't know if that is the nature of WoW or if that is just one a-hole guild leader.

Thank you for understanding but remember the Final Fantasy community isn't always nice, yes there are many assholes in FFXI whether it's in-game voice or not, they are just mean. If you want to know more about my experience issues with voice chat, I will tell you what. I do miss Phantasy Star Online back on the Dreamcast where they had to use their keyboard, it was totally a blast until SEGA shut it down. Again, I bought PSO for my Xbox and paid Xbox Live and well sadly I was often asked to leave the game room for not using a mic because they didn't like my text bubbles. This is the reason why I do not like Xbox Live because whatever I tried to please myself to play games like Halo games and they often violated me for not talking. Never mind about that.

Thanks to voice chat, my life is very similar to Haruhi Suzumiya (in Middle/High Schools and College) in class with other hearing students. Whoever they are and they never try and talk to me because they still don't know how to help me (indeed, I was lonely.)



Okay, it's over... Now back to the topic. If it's what most of you guys want it then it's fine by me and I will tell you what...

If you come closely to me and voice to me.

I will say, hey there sorry I am deaf. ^^

You will walk away silently.

... -_-

[KaplanHomahru]

Here is what he's said about voice chat

It doesn't really matter about the tech, as they could already do it if they wanted...they don't want to officially support it though, partly because of discrimination...also if they added an in-game voice chat people could argue that you "have" to use it for raids and stuff...they want to avoid that kind of logic.