Risk, Reward, Probability and Difficulty

[rina_inverse]

Rather than giving yourself a handicap, it better to make harder battle
giving yourself a handicap only give you a reason if you make the party wipe

[HiirNoivl]

Ooooo break it down! I'll dish my take on this subject

Risk: Risk involves more than just maybe not getting something, it also involves losing. Call me casual, but I feel kinda crummy playing for hours and feeling like I've gotten nothing out of it. Imagine feeling like you've gotten done Less-than-nothing. So if you're going to risk something the reward has got to be worth it. That's why I'm not too thrilled with these rumors going around about weakening the rewards of multiple melds on materia... If I'm going to blow 100s of mils of gil, I want to have the reward that goes along with it please. Now if we dumb down the reward we need to dumb down the risk as well. Gotta keep that in balance....

Reward: Rewards can be anything gil, materia, mats, exp, CGI cutscenes, any sort of happy progress is a reward. Rewards need to scale with risk and difficulty or else you won't feel it. That's why the level up graphic needs to be flashy. If I'm grinding all the way to max level, Id better see fireworks, strobe lights and like a red carpeted choir singing my praises in the tune of the FF fanfare when I get there.

Probability: When I see probability, I just think meh... time sink. Whatever it is, you're going to end up doing it more than once so you'd better get real comfortable. You're gonna be there for a while. I don't really have a problem with this, but it tends to be the best stuff that has the lowest probability. In 1.0 there was no way to really improve probability on ANYTHING. So you had to speedrun spam stuff so you could increase your probability by sheer number of runs. I hope we get to change this in ARR somehow. To give us at least the illusion of some sort of progress. Token systems allow you to progress outside of RNG, but I think we'll still be speed running dungeons at some point in ARR, the mechanic is just too convenient.

Difficulty: Here's where it gets dicey. Difficult battles, difficult dungeons, difficult puzzles are necessary for some people. Its not about hardcore or casual, but some people actually enjoy losing 100x before a win. It makes that win sweet for them, gives them community cred, and the satisfaction and memories are long lasting. Its that lovely pay out. But then you have to contend with the people who don't have the patience or skill to lose 100x but they STILL want that same drop or loot or whatever. SE, if you want to put up some difficult stuff, and make the drops and pay out worth it, be prepared to deal with some consistent, persistent, never ending belly aching. And the rest of the community will have to deal with it too.

[Abriael]

So basically, to address people's dislike for the random number generator, implement a lottery.

I see, I see


Here's another idea. What about we just remove the random number generator?

[rina_inverse]

I remember the day when we can only have one zodiac spear instead of 99
Those days..

[Renen]

I remember the day when we can only have one zodiac spear instead of 99
Those days..

I remember days where you had to reset 100's of times to get folmahaut (i think)
Those days...

So basically, to address people's dislike for the random number generator, implement a lottery.

I see, I see


Here's another idea. What about we just remove the random number generator?

Removing it would make content go by too fast (is what they tell us).
As for the RNG, my idea simply allows you to adjust risk and reward.

Imagine:

High risk + high reward + High probability = robbing bank
Low Risk + High reward + Low Probability = Lottery
Low Risk + Low to Moderate reward + High probability = Normal Job

Just let the players choose the option they think they can pull off.
Not everyone can pull a bank heist, but if you have the SKILL, why wont the devs give you the chanse

[Abriael]

Removing it would make content go by too fast (is what they tell us).

No, it would not. removing the RNG would not mean giving the prize immediately. You can simply give the prize after a statistically average number of attempts, and have a filling bar clearly indicate how many times you need to do the required actions to receive the desired prize.

[Renen]

No, it would not. removing the RNG would not mean giving the prize immediately. You can simply give the prize after a statistically average number of attempts, and have a filling bar clearly indicate how many times you need to do the required actions to receive the desired prize.

Oh right, that. Yeh, I agree that is a good idea. As long as its not like Dynamis (in length) >_<

[HiirNoivl]

No, it would not. removing the RNG would not mean giving the prize immediately. You can simply give the prize after a statistically average number of attempts, and have a filling bar clearly indicate how many times you need to do the required actions to receive the desired prize.

Maybe this would be good for a "statistically average" piece of gear...

[Shougun]

No, it would not. removing the RNG would not mean giving the prize immediately. You can simply give the prize after a statistically average number of attempts, and have a filling bar clearly indicate how many times you need to do the required actions to receive the desired prize.

Them fighting words to some.. :P

I would like to see RNG removed but (like in my first post) I think there is some worry / concern on the psychological feelings associated with chances (gambling) vs "this is how it is".

It would be interesting to see a vote on it, more so to see it make appearance in a AAA [mmorpg] game. Wheels created ruts too deep to get out without help maybe.

Maybe this would be good for a "statistically average" piece of gear...

Kind of what SE is doing for ARR or at least told us they are doing. 3 rare item drop, if you fail a roll you can get a token you can spend on slightly less awesome gear.

[Abriael]

Them fighting words to some.. :P

I would like to see RNG removed but (like in my first post) I think there is some worry / concern on the psychological feelings associated with chances (gambling) vs "this is how it is".

It would be interesting to see a vote on it, more so to see it make appearance in a AAA [mmorpg] game. Wheels created ruts too deep to get out without help maybe.



Kind of what SE is doing for ARR or at least told us they are doing. 3 rare item drop, if you fail a roll you can a token you can spend on slightly less awesome gear.

A degree of randomness could be kept as a bonus in order to keep things exciting, but the difference lays exactly in the concept of bonus.

As we have now, the random reward is the baseline, and the statistical progression (IE: Tokens) is a consolation prize.

It would be better to make it with the statistical progression being the baseline, and the random reward to be a bonus.

It would shift the game from rewarding luck to rewarding effort, with a bit of luck to add some spice to it. And IMHO it would be more fair and enjoyable for everyone involved.