Counter to Elitism

[ispano]

That's also part of the problem. What some see as challenging, others see as too hard. Then even others see it as something simple.

You see people wanting a "challenge" vs random chance and such in an MMO, and while I understand that one can have the ability to see a problem yet not have the ability to come up with a proper solution, it's all too difficult to come up with something, yet still attract enough people. The more FPS/Twitch you make the game, the less people will play. The more you deviate from what people are used to, the less people will play.

You then also have people that want their games to be "laid back" and/or have little effort, because if it involves work or effort they feel like it's a job. But on the other hand, you have people like me and others who feel if no effort is put in, there's no enjoyment. Then you have the ones that without a reward, it's not fun at all.

Coming up with a new working idea is actually far more difficult than some people realize.

EDIT: Also, random is not meant to replace challenge. It's there so it slows things down a bit. If you could get something every run for sure, well your party anyhow, it would take very little time til you stopped doing it. But even then, for some it IS challenging for some. Maybe they don't have the time to play all the time, so being able to get enough runs in for RNG to smile on them is difficult. It's like most things, an example: keeping a secret, for some they can do it forever, some find it difficult NOT to reveal it.

[Reynhart]

If you could get something every run for sure, well your party anyhow, it would take very little time til you stopped doing it.

So how come everyone doesn't have the White Ravens ? Because they got their ass kicked hard by Nael.

By progressins through challenge, you could also build steadily your way to the best items.
AF aren't hard, so you start with this.
Grand companies items aren't hard too, but a bit longer, so with your AF, you'll gather enough company seals
Beastmen strongholds are a bit harder, so with GC Set, you'll hunt for these items.
Ifrit is yet harder than the strongholds, so with your drops, you'll fight it, then Garuda, then the dungeons, etc...

You won't hunt directly for the best items, because it'll be too difficult.

[ispano]

So how come everyone doesn't have the White Ravens ? Because they got their ass kicked hard by Nael.

By progressins through challenge, you could also build steadily your way to the best items.
AF aren't hard, so you start with this.
Grand companies items aren't hard too, but a bit longer, so with your AF, you'll gather enough company seals
Beastmen strongholds are a bit harder, so with GC Set, you'll hunt for these items.
Ifrit is yet harder than the strongholds, so with your drops, you'll fight it, then Garuda, then the dungeons, etc...

You won't hunt directly for the best items, because it'll be too difficult.

Because you also have to realize that a large part of the community gets upset when they can't do something without putting in a lot of effort. I understand the working your way up and bettering yourself mentality. But much of the community they're trying to appeal to doesn't seem to like playing that way.

[Reynhart]

Because you also have to realize that a large part of the community gets upset when they can't do something without putting in a lot of effort.

I really like your sentence. If one don't want to "put a lot of effort" in one's reward, then this game is not for him/her, be it "very difficult fights with guaranteed reward" or "ridiculous drop rate so that you have to repeat dungeons and fights over and over"

These people think that they'll hit the 1% drop on their first run, and will get bored pretty quick when confronted to the real thing.

It's almost as if they say "I don't want to work so I can steadily build my income...I'd rather play the lottery over and over, I'm confident I will win"

[ispano]

I really like your sentence. If one don't want to "put a lot of effort" in one's reward, then this game is not for him/her, be it "very difficult fights with guaranteed reward" or "ridiculous drop rate so that you have to repeat dungeons and fights over and over"

These people think that they'll hit the 1% drop on their first run, and will get bored pretty quick when confronted to the real thing.

But you see, SE is trying to appeal to a much larger player base, which includes those people. You'll almost never convince people to change the way they play or that the game is not for them. If they "like" other parts of the game, they want it to appeal to them and many want it changed to do so. Most people i've seen don't quite "get" the fact that some games may not be for them, they'd rather have them changed.

[Warlock]

So how come everyone doesn't have the White Ravens ? Because they got their ass kicked hard by Nael.

By progressins through challenge, you could also build steadily your way to the best items.
AF aren't hard, so you start with this.
Grand companies items aren't hard too, but a bit longer, so with your AF, you'll gather enough company seals
Beastmen strongholds are a bit harder, so with GC Set, you'll hunt for these items.
Ifrit is yet harder than the strongholds, so with your drops, you'll fight it, then Garuda, then the dungeons, etc...

You won't hunt directly for the best items, because it'll be too difficult.

Amen..well said people try to skip this thus they fail...they want to run before been able to walk ..i saw parties pop dead at Garuda wearing full AF

[Reynhart]

Amen..well said people try to skip this thus they fail...they want to run before been able to walk ..i saw parties pop dead at Garuda wearing full AF

Who can blame them for wanting a change of pace after missing "earlier" drops so many times ?

[ispano]

Here's an example of something you can do that's futile. Find someone who wants a game to reward with minimal effort. Usually this type gets upset and says it's a game and not a job when told they need to work for the reward. So ask them something like this. You want it to be simple and easy entertainment, yet you want a reward as if it was a job where you put effort and work at it? So you effectively want to be rewarded for a job, except you only want to watch TV?

It's not perfect, but it's something i've seen from many people.