Counter to Elitism

[Amiral_Benson]

There's a way to counter "elitism" as everyone understands it.
In fact, the real problem is how people understand "casual play" and "hardcore play".
Casual players are not bad players, they just don't have several hours per day to invest on the game. Likewise, hardcore players are not necessarily good players.
I know people who can't properly do their job even if they spend hours and hours in the game.

Now, imagine a reward system based on player skills. For example, you enter in a dungeon as a WHM, and you get a pool of points. Each time a member dies, you loose points, when you Cure in combat, you gain points, etc...at the end, you got a reward based on the amount of points you have.

This way, if you know your job, you'll get a better reward, and if you don't...well, you can't complain for being a bad player. And a good casual player will be rewarded far more than a bad hardcore player.

Back in 1.XX, who deserved the better drop ? A party that could defeat Ifrit in 10 min without any casualties, or a party that killed it 10 times with a nearly full wipe each time ?

I agree with everything you said Reynhart Kristensen, you made a very good summary, I really wish FFXIV:ARR become more a Skill to Win game and less a Play to Win game.

[moriandrio]

wish se brought back gear swapping macro.

[EinSoFZ]

Not even going to lie, a little elitism is a good thing in my opinion. It makes things interesting and promotes healthy competition at times too. I'm not promoting the kind where well-geared players become snobs, but the kind where you're proud of what you've worked to get and kind of compete to stay on top.

I don't think handouts are the cure to elitism anyway.

[Nayto]

There's a way to counter "elitism" as everyone understands it.
In fact, the real problem is how people understand "casual play" and "hardcore play".
Casual players are not bad players, they just don't have several hours per day to invest on the game. Likewise, hardcore players are not necessarily good players.
I know people who can't properly do their job even if they spend hours and hours in the game.

Now, imagine a reward system based on player skills. For example, you enter in a dungeon as a WHM, and you get a pool of points. Each time a member dies, you loose points, when you Cure in combat, you gain points, etc...at the end, you got a reward based on the amount of points you have.

This way, if you know your job, you'll get a better reward, and if you don't...well, you can't complain for being a bad player. And a good casual player will be rewarded far more than a bad hardcore player.

Back in 1.XX, who deserved the better drop ? A party that could defeat Ifrit in 10 min without any casualties, or a party that killed it 10 times with a nearly full wipe each time ?

I'm ganna go and say that's still going to promote 'elitism'. If there's a 'bonus' of any kind, people will 'segregate' others to streamline said bonus (aka 'experienced onry pls' parties for the 'each time X member dies you loose points' score). They'd also come up with a damnable exploit for that whm bonus, I'll bet you it'll become a standard to do nothing in battle first to reach a 'cure' threshold before having the party do anything in battle, to acheive MAXIMUM reward.

But I can see where your trying to go with this, trying to promote skilled play. Although in MMOs I find that skilled play is mistakened with 'whatever the hell get's this shit done fastest so I can go to sleep' kind of play, since people are oppurtuninsts and goes with whatever is the 'tried and tested' exploitable method.

[Eekiki]

There's a way to counter "elitism" as everyone understands it.
In fact, the real problem is how people understand "casual play" and "hardcore play".
Casual players are not bad players, they just don't have several hours per day to invest on the game. Likewise, hardcore players are not necessarily good players.
I know people who can't properly do their job even if they spend hours and hours in the game.

Now, imagine a reward system based on player skills. For example, you enter in a dungeon as a WHM, and you get a pool of points. Each time a member dies, you loose points, when you Cure in combat, you gain points, etc...at the end, you got a reward based on the amount of points you have.

This way, if you know your job, you'll get a better reward, and if you don't...well, you can't complain for being a bad player. And a good casual player will be rewarded far more than a bad hardcore player.

Back in 1.XX, who deserved the better drop ? A party that could defeat Ifrit in 10 min without any casualties, or a party that killed it 10 times with a nearly full wipe each time ?

You're describing a DKP system. This kind of thing has been done for a long time, and it doesn't do a thing to curb what the OP is calling elitism. In fact, it's made things worse over the years.

[Alerith]

There is one foolproof way to counter elitism, and that is to simply not subject yourself to it. It is very possible to succeed in an MMO without joining a huge endgame Linkshell/Guild.

And the best way to promote a fun style of play is to make your own linkshell and invite others to. Do things together, have fun, but don't stress the numbers. If you want to take three monks, two white mage, one paladin and two warriors into Ifrit, by all means do so. You may not be getting the fastest kills, but you can certainly win.

Countering elitism is achieved by letting the elitists do their thing while not subjecting yourself to it, but bringing yourself from the level of a casual player up to a Midcore player, one who is laid back but willing to lead a group for the simple sake of having fun.

Because at the end of the day, any game is about the fun you had in it. Years down the road, your drops and leet gear may be totally worthless, but you will always have memories of good times. A rare piece of gear holds value in-game for continued raiding. Fun and good times hold real life value.

[KoujiGeki]

I'm sorry that i am a huge fan of gear swapping, but i will say i am one of the few who does not care what your wearing, unless your a filthy casual wearing full af, thats a whole different story. c.c

I mean while i Mine i wear my Dalamud Horn for the lols but notice i was getting a F^$@ ton of the items i was going for and the +1s.

[Yashnaheen]

I've never really found Elitism to be an issue in FF. You can't get in the best LS on the server unless you are up to the challenge, which includes gear. Find a group that is compatible with your level and playtime. I've never seen someone who was actually trying get booted from a pickup group though.

For example in XI, if a SAM showed up to bird camp full timing a Domaru and using a Gondo, he would be laughed at and booted. Because he is literally useless. If they show up with an NQ hauby and Askar pants, no one cares that its not a hauby +1 and kitty pants.

If you joined an AV speed run or Garuda in 1.0 and are wearing full AF you would likely not be invited to go again. You aren't up to the challenge. Throw in a couple relatively cheap double melds and a bit of GC gear and you can at least be worth the party slot. Now if you joined a Moogle PUG in full AF, you'll find no one cares because you can still fill your role in the party.

Basically, don't subject others to your inability to perform if you aren't able to perform. This way you may encounter a few assholes but for the most part if you can do the job no one cares.

[Maxthunder]

In my post I didn't mean to convey that everyone should be equalized. Just to give incentives to allow weaker players to simply just participate.

Casual player gets to join in.
Hardcore player gets a bonus(xp, item boost, droprate+, etc) for inviting the casual.

Also a + for everyone , make new friends and have an incentive to do so!

Seriously what do you think the devs could offer a hardcore group to let them let a casual player join? Seriously nothing as the fact would stand that hardcore and even mid-core groups still would not want a casual to join for any reason. Lets not forget that the casual would have to be trained in how the dungeon is done, or the group would need to train said player in how they run the dungeon. So there really is no incentive at all to allow as you put it a casual to join.

[Siegtaru]

Elitism is mostly a matter of perspective and delusion anyways. There will always, always, always be players who think they're The Twelve's gift to Eorzea, or what have you. Even if these players, in your eyes and many other's, are not a very good player, in whatever aspect. Be it they're terrible to play with as a person, their play skill is awful and it is believed by fellow players in the community they were carried through content and didn't actually earn it (I knew many people like that), yet they still get this feeling of self-entitlement that, truthfully, is only factual in the imaginary world in their minds.

There will always be people like that out there, within the community of our MMO. Doing silly things as mentioned in the OP won't solve anything. It just gives people more reason to lord themselves over others, often for no true reason whatsoever.

I'd much rather play with someone who's unsure of themselves and willing to learn the game, than an elitest who believes they are never at fault when something goes wrong when grouping with others, and thus unwilling to ever learn and become better players. That's everyone's choice in an MMO; to choose to play with player A or player B, where B can sometimes be an elitest asshole who you really don't want to play or associate yourself with. Just don't play with those people. They deserve each other! ;3