Dedicated Servers?

[Dannythm]

Sorry. This is a terrible idea. Terrible, terrible, terrible. Third wasn't a charm

Scattering the population between a lot of different server types only serves to fragment the community. Server division between regions and new/old players is already a terrible idea and scattering the community even further between several different server types is even worse.

Anything beyond a roleplay server is just a waste of server farm space.

This is NOT an FPS. MMORPGs are strongly based on their communities. A fragmented community is a bad community.

This time i have to totally agree with Abriael, cause if you split up the community it would be almost impossible to bring them together again. And all those servers with a very small population would die in a few months.

Well it would depend on how many players you have, right? If the game is successful, and we all want it to be, there should be enough people playing it for this fragmentation to not matter, because the hardcore will have their community, the casual other (or whatever server differentiation should be made), and everyone would be happy.

If you assume the game will have few players, then I don't even know why are you guys bothering on supporting it, but as Yoshi said in a letter or an interview, when taking the FFXIV project there were 2 options: Let it die or bet on it all the way, and they bet on it all the way. Obviously something like this won't be of much use if only a small population plays ARR, but that's not the correct mindset.

[Abriael]

Well it would depend on how many players you have, right? If the game is successful, and we all want it to be, there should be enough people playing it for this fragmentation to not matter, because the hardcore will have their community, the casual other (or whatever server differentiation should be made), and everyone would be happy.

If you assume the game will have few players, then I don't even know why are you guys bothering on supporting it, but as Yoshi said in a letter or an interview, when taking the FFXIV project there were 2 options: Let it die or bet on it all the way, and they bet on it all the way. Obviously something like this won't be of much use if only a small population plays ARR, but that's not the correct mindset.

No. I assume nothing. The idea of splitting servers in many little rulesets, different regions and to segregate old players from the new is terrible whether there are 200k players of four million.

The more you splinter the community, the more you create situations in which people have to bend over twice in order to play with their friends, because every one of those friends has his own ruleset of choice, his own region (who really has friends only in his own region?) and his own friends pulling him towards other servers (and those friends have their own friends and so forth).

Other developers (like funcom with the awesome server tech implemented in TSW, that lets you travel to any server at will, at any given time, or Zenymax with the megaserver tech that will be implemented in TESO) are making server segregation obsolete, and it's really a pity to see that SE is taking a step back by going against the flow with segregated regional servers.

Of course those that implement server-joining techs have to give up the income from server transfers, but hey, some time giving up income to make things a LOT more convenient for your players isn't a bad thing.

The internet is becoming more and more a globalized community. Situation like the one I describe below should really never happen anymore:

Player 1: Hey, you're fun, we should play together.
Player 2: Sure what server are you on?
Player 1: Gungnir
Player 2: Oh crap, I'm on Ridill
Player 1: Can you transfer?
Player 2: Most of my friends are on Ridill...
Player 1: Eh, most of mine are on Gungnir...
Player 2: oh, well... maybe in the next game then.

It's obsolete, unnecessary, has absolutely no positive side (besides a paltry income from transfers), it's absolutely inconvenient, and terribad for community building.

But anyway, bad to dedicated servers, they simply will not happen. Ever. The more you split the ruleset, the more you raise development costs and times. Every patch would need to be adapted and playtested to every ruleset, which is simply not feasible. Thus, this discussion is pretty moot, as the request is unrealistic.

[Dannythm]

...

Well you are entitled with your own opinion, I don't like where computing today is going and thus hate the globalization, so I'd very much prefer compact, small but strong communities (like the good old FFXI servers), rather than stuff like WoW or hell, even outside games, Facebook (oh god I'd burn and destroy Facebook and twitter to the ground so hard...) where individuality is completely lost in a huge community.

So what if I want to play on a different server than my friends? I'll make new friends then, and build a strong community. And contrary on what you think, it's most likely to help build communities having a few people tightly tied, than large amounts of people where you never cross paths with anyone twice in the whole game. So your idea for community building is worse than this "terribad" (aren't you supposed to be a reporter? why don't you write in English?) idea.

And about the development costs and times and patch testing, well, I happen to know a little about software development and balancing systems, and I will tell you that if you are not able to test thousands of different configurations for your system in short times, you are doing something terribly wrong. And I'm pretty sure Yoshida and Square Enix have a long experience balancing games, so no, if the core of the game is well defined and the different rule sets only affect the context, they probably wouldn't even have to balance anything new for every new patch.

Also if you think this topic is moot and has no value, why even waste effort in arguing about it?

Also on a side note, I liked your posts at first Abriel, but lately you started being more and more arrogant and aggressive and, well, plain rude in the forums. I think you should get down your high horse and live with the mortals again, you don't know the answer to everything and probably most of what you think is wrong, just like what everyone thinks is probably wrong (including myself). Starlord's signature reflects this too so, man, chill a little and come back to the nice conversations and posts you provided some weeks ago.

[Abriael]

Setting the personal jabs aside, since they're amusing but tend to become tiresome in the end...

I don't like big communities!

Then don't play a MASSIVELY Multiplayer Online RPG.

Mind you, you're perfectly able to create your little tightly knit community regardless of the number of people on the server or with access to the server. That's what linkshells and free companies are for.

So your idea for community building is worse than this "terribad" (aren't you supposed to be a reporter? why don't you write in English?) idea.

Because at the moment I'm not working (and English is not my first language anyway, mind you, not that it matters)?

And about the development costs and times and patch testing, well, I happen to know a little about software development and balancing systems, and I will tell you that if you are not able to test thousands of different configurations for your system in short times, you are doing something terribly wrong. And I'm pretty sure Yoshida and Square Enix have a long experience balancing games, so no, if the core of the game is well defined and the different rule sets only affect the context, they probably wouldn't even have to balance anything new for every new patch.

You know a little about software development of MMORPGs? I'm afraid it's not the same thing. MMORPGs are extremely complex animals, with thousands of elements interacting with each other.

If you aren't able to "test thousands of different configurations for your system in short times" you're simply developing something more complex than a database.

There's a reason why MMORPGs are released with a massive amount of glitches and problems compared to other games. And that reason resides in their complexity, that impacts balancing, testing and every other area of development in a rather large way.

But again. This thread is definitely moot. I know it won't happen. You know it won't happen. The OP knows it won't happen. And it's ultimately a very good thing that it won't happen.

[Dannythm]

Setting the personal jabs aside, since they're amusing but tend to become tiresome in the end...

It was not a personal jab, it was a honest advise so posting in the Lodestone get's overall better and constructive.

Then don't play a MASSIVELY Multiplayer Online RPG.

Mind you, you're perfectly able to create your little tightly knit community regardless of the number of people on the server or with access to the server. That's what linkshells and free companies are for.

5000 people for each server is massive for any game world and it can help create a good community, but having a mega-server or something among those lines with 25k+ people makes it harder. And I think it's easier to build a good LS when the overall community is smaller and the game content is harder than in a casual environment with thousands of people, but to each it's own.

You know a little about software development of MMORPGs? I'm afraid it's not the same thing. MMORPGs are extremely complex animals, with thousands of elements interacting with each other.

If you aren't able to "test thousands of different configurations for your system in short times" you're simply developing something more complex than a database.

There's a reason why MMORPGs are released with a massive amount of glitches and problems compared to other games. And that reason resides in their complexity, that impacts balancing, testing and every other area of development in a rather large way.

I work with systems way more complex than MMO's daily, and I assure you those are not just databases, so I know quite well how all the processes involved in developing, deploying, configuring, testing and teaching to use any given system involve, this is why I tell you, if SE knows their stuff, and I'm pretty sure they know, if they do this they will do it all right. I could start a long techie post as why I think this won't involve much effort and cost development even when delivering new content, but I don't think much people could appreciate it.

But again. This thread is definitely moot. I know it won't happen. You know it won't happen. The OP knows it won't happen. And it's ultimately a very good thing that it won't happen.

And because it won't happen it's not worth discussing? What happens with freedom of speech man! If you don't like this, don't read it and don't comment on it. It's not right that OP had to put this in his thread:

so thought i'd throw out an idea i had, this will be my 3rd thread and my last 2 were a flunk and this one probably will be as well lol. but i figure maybe it's a good idea that people would like to see.

...

i'ma probably have like 4players in this thread at all and they will all say they hate the idea like my other 2 ideas lmao but i figure this has got to be a really good idea and concept that all mmo's can take a step back and look at as being part of any mmo. what you guys think? would you like this or no and why the heck not?

[Abriael]

It was not a personal jab, it was a honest advise so posting in the Lodestone get's overall better and constructive.

It was a personal jab. And since you imply a change in my way of expressing myself, that never happened, also a not very realistic one. I always expressed concepts in a very direct, straightforward and clear cut way (without insulting and personally attacking anyone. Some do feel quite dumb after I dismantle their arguments, but that's not really my fault) and that never changed. Some can take it. Some cannot. That's life. Anyway. Moving on.

5000 people for each server is massive for any game world and it can help create a good community, but having a mega-server or something among those lines with 25k+ people makes it harder. And I think it's easier to build a good LS when the overall community is smaller and the game content is harder than in a casual environment with thousands of people, but to each it's own.

EVE Online is the perfect example of the fact that strong, close-knit communities can easily be built on large servers. As a matter of fact the EVE community is one of the strongest on the internet (strong enough to put the developer on its collective knees when it crossed the community), and it has within itself some of the strongest sub-communities as well.

And it doesn't have 25k people on the same server. It has around 400k. Communities are modular, and the upper limit doesn't influence in any way the ability to community-build. As a matter of fact, the bigger the pool, the higher the chance that you'll meet more like-minded people with which to form a strong bond.

I work with systems way more complex than MMO's daily, and I assure you those are not just databases, so I know quite well how all the processes involved in developing, deploying, configuring, testing and teaching to use any given system involve, this is why I tell you, if SE knows their stuff, and I'm pretty sure they know, if they do this they will do it all right. I could start a long techie post as why I think this won't involve much effort and cost development even when delivering new content, but I don't think much people could appreciate it.

You could sure start a long techie post, and it wouldn't have anything to do with this topic, because unless you develop MMORPGs, or are in close contact with people that do, developing other kinds of software gives you absolutely no experience in MMORPG development.

And because it won't happen it's not worth discussing? What happens with freedom of speech man! If you don't like this, don't read it and don't comment on it. It's not right that OP had to put this in his thread:

Not worth discussing != you can't discuss it. Go ahead and discuss it as much as you like. I know worse ways to waste time. That's for sure.

Huge, not very readable wall of text

Only that the fact that MMORPGs fail has absolutely nothing to do with their server structure. So yeah, you can sit on your "high horse" and say "i told you so", but you would simply be wrong.

Mind you, one of the main reasons MMORPGs "fail" is that bleeding players tends to have a slippery slope effect. When you start losing players for any reasons (and MMORPG *always* lose a sizable number of players after the first free month), other players notice less people playing the game in their servers and have less people to play with. The result is that they start to feel less enthusiastic about the game and more bored. Some of those players leave. Those remaining continue to feels the same effect, but amplified by the fact that now there are even less players, and so forth.

Lowering server populations are one of the primary causes of "failure" of any MMORPG, and the more you fragment the servers between different rulesets, the lower server populations will be, especially on the more niche rulesets.

So yeah, your proposal would *accelerate* failure.

Oh, and Project Eternity is a single player RPG, not a MMO.