Level Progression/Questing

[Wolfie]

Not even SE cared for the dialog when they showed off the video. Quest grinding is the exact same. It's there for grinding and making you level up. If every MMO "fed you lore with quest chaining" why is it that most people don't give a shit for the dialog it displays..?

When you're on a rail you're not going to be exploring, you're going to be led to the exact point of the quest and back.

You are "on the rail" regardless of whether you level via solo questing, group questing, grinding, dungeons, PVP, or whatever the hell. That is what happens in MMOs, you level up really quick, and there are definitely going to be people who don't give a rat's ass about stopping to read through the quests or to explore or whatever while leveling up.

The difference is that in pure monster grinding, you don't have the option to pause for a sec and read the dialogue. You have nothing aside from straight up killing monsters. You can get the same experience by setting up an Excel spreadsheet and banging in a bunch of numbers.

[Gramul]

You are "on the rail" regardless of whether you level via solo questing, group questing, grinding, dungeons, PVP, or whatever the hell. That is what happens in MMOs, you level up really quick, and there are definitely going to be people who don't give a rat's ass about stopping to read through the quests or to explore or whatever while leveling up.

The difference is that in pure monster grinding, you don't have the option to pause for a sec and read the dialogue. You have nothing aside from straight up killing monsters. You can get the same experience by setting up an Excel spreadsheet and banging in a bunch of numbers.

Well, that why there's quests separate from regular grinding in those cases. And because they're not based solely on experience gain, they have room to avoid the Kill X of Y quests so many themepark MMOs have, which is something I did appreciate from them.

You can build a community by making fun and easily accessible group content (this is what the content finder is), and not by forcing people to do unashamedly naked grinds by making it the only viable option or by far the best option.

I think both are completely valid.

[Wolfie]

Well, that why there's quests separate from regular grinding in those cases. And because they're not based solely on experience gain, they have room to avoid the Kill X of Y quests so many themepark MMOs have, which is something I did appreciate from them.

As opposed to "Kill X monsters until you're high level enough to get this quest, then kill Y mobs for this quest until Z item drops"? Or let's not forget the ever important, "to get access A you must complete quest B several dozen times". The good games are not going to have this disconnect between leveling and questing.

I think both are completely valid.

[Gramul]

As opposed to "Kill X monsters until you're high level enough to get this quest, then kill Y mobs for this quest until Z item drops"? Or let's not forget the ever important, "to get access A you must complete quest B several dozen times". The good games are not going to have this disconnect between leveling and questing.

More like "Escort this guy without letting him see you" or "dress up this way for a client" or "Please convince this girl to love me by choosing what line I should write here" or "wear this hat around town to advertise my store".

You know, things that might not have to do with killing or delivering. For once.

I don't really see the "being satisfied" as an excuse. Half the time, when I beat something in FFXI, I thought to myself "about damn time." Yes, there was a challenge, but to say that games like World of Warcraft don't have challenges simply because leveling up isn't one of them is silly. I never understood why simply gaining levels in FFXI is seen as some sort of accomplishment...it was just time consuming.

Well like I said, it depends on the style of gameplay you prefer. Some people like to progress quickly while some like the slower approach. It's a matter of taste.

[Wolfie]

More like "Escort this guy without letting him see you" or "dress up this way for a client" or "Please convince this girl to love me by choosing what line I should write here" or "wear this hat around town to advertise my store".

You know, things that might not have to do with killing or delivering. For once.

So are you saying that these quests are impossible in MMOs that have quest-based leveling?

[Gramul]

So are you saying that these quests are impossible in MMOs that have quest-based leveling?

No. And I hope XIV has those types as well, but you just don't see them very often in themepark MMOs these days. It's all a minor variation on the Kill X of Y / Gather X of Z / Deliver A quests. That why I have concern over it. I don't think gameplay variety in quests is something to be shunned just because we have a standard mechanism.

[Wolfie]

No. And I hope XIV has those types as well, but you just don't see them very often in themepark MMOs these days. It's all a minor variation on the Kill X of Y / Gather X of Z / Deliver A quests. That why I have concern over it. I don't think gameplay variety in quests is something to be shunned just because we have a standard mechanism.

Sorry, but no. I can't vouch for other 'themepark MMOs' that I've played, but at least in WOW and Aion you had a fairly large list of cool and unique quests, quests that didn't involve killing, and long epic quests and quest chains. You are literally complaining out of ignorance.