Level Progression/Questing

[Wolfie]

Why do people want to set up camp somewhere and grind the same monsters for hours on end? Why is this a thing? And why do people want this to be the best/fastest way to level up, as opposed to varied content that will feed you lore and make you explore new areas? What the f**k?

[Elexia]

Why do people want to set up camp somewhere and grind the same monsters for hours on end? Why is this a thing? And why do people want this to be the best/fastest way to level up, as opposed to varied content that will feed you lore and make you explore new areas? What the f**k?

Not even SE cared for the dialog when they showed off the video. Quest grinding is the exact same. It's there for grinding and making you level up. If every MMO "fed you lore with quest chaining" why is it that most people don't give a shit for the dialog it displays..? I know someone will say: "It was to save time"...yet plenty of other companies had no problem letting dialog in quests flow naturally like you're reading it.

When you're on a rail you're not going to be exploring, you're going to be led to the exact point of the quest and back.

[Wolfie]

Not even SE cared for the dialog when they showed off the video. Quest grinding is the exact same. It's there for grinding and making you level up. If every MMO "fed you lore with quest chaining" why is it that most people don't give a shit for the dialog it displays..?

When you're on a rail you're not going to be exploring, you're going to be led to the exact point of the quest and back.

You are "on the rail" regardless of whether you level via solo questing, group questing, grinding, dungeons, PVP, or whatever the hell. That is what happens in MMOs, you level up really quick, and there are definitely going to be people who don't give a rat's ass about stopping to read through the quests or to explore or whatever while leveling up.

The difference is that in pure monster grinding, you don't have the option to pause for a sec and read the dialogue. You have nothing aside from straight up killing monsters. You can get the same experience by setting up an Excel spreadsheet and banging in a bunch of numbers.

[Gramul]

You are "on the rail" regardless of whether you level via solo questing, group questing, grinding, dungeons, PVP, or whatever the hell. That is what happens in MMOs, you level up really quick, and there are definitely going to be people who don't give a rat's ass about stopping to read through the quests or to explore or whatever while leveling up.

The difference is that in pure monster grinding, you don't have the option to pause for a sec and read the dialogue. You have nothing aside from straight up killing monsters. You can get the same experience by setting up an Excel spreadsheet and banging in a bunch of numbers.

Well, that why there's quests separate from regular grinding in those cases. And because they're not based solely on experience gain, they have room to avoid the Kill X of Y quests so many themepark MMOs have, which is something I did appreciate from them.

You can build a community by making fun and easily accessible group content (this is what the content finder is), and not by forcing people to do unashamedly naked grinds by making it the only viable option or by far the best option.

I think both are completely valid.

[Wolfie]

Well, that why there's quests separate from regular grinding in those cases. And because they're not based solely on experience gain, they have room to avoid the Kill X of Y quests so many themepark MMOs have, which is something I did appreciate from them.

As opposed to "Kill X monsters until you're high level enough to get this quest, then kill Y mobs for this quest until Z item drops"? Or let's not forget the ever important, "to get access A you must complete quest B several dozen times". The good games are not going to have this disconnect between leveling and questing.

I think both are completely valid.

[Gramul]

As opposed to "Kill X monsters until you're high level enough to get this quest, then kill Y mobs for this quest until Z item drops"? Or let's not forget the ever important, "to get access A you must complete quest B several dozen times". The good games are not going to have this disconnect between leveling and questing.

More like "Escort this guy without letting him see you" or "dress up this way for a client" or "Please convince this girl to love me by choosing what line I should write here" or "wear this hat around town to advertise my store".

You know, things that might not have to do with killing or delivering. For once.

I don't really see the "being satisfied" as an excuse. Half the time, when I beat something in FFXI, I thought to myself "about damn time." Yes, there was a challenge, but to say that games like World of Warcraft don't have challenges simply because leveling up isn't one of them is silly. I never understood why simply gaining levels in FFXI is seen as some sort of accomplishment...it was just time consuming.

Well like I said, it depends on the style of gameplay you prefer. Some people like to progress quickly while some like the slower approach. It's a matter of taste.

[Wolfie]

More like "Escort this guy without letting him see you" or "dress up this way for a client" or "Please convince this girl to love me by choosing what line I should write here" or "wear this hat around town to advertise my store".

You know, things that might not have to do with killing or delivering. For once.

So are you saying that these quests are impossible in MMOs that have quest-based leveling?

[Zumi]

Not even SE cared for the dialog when they showed off the video. Quest grinding is the exact same. It's there for grinding and making you level up. If every MMO "fed you lore with quest chaining" why is it that most people don't give a shit for the dialog it displays..? I know someone will say: "It was to save time"...yet plenty of other companies had no problem letting dialog in quests flow naturally like you're reading it.

When you're on a rail you're not going to be exploring, you're going to be led to the exact point of the quest and back.

Most text in WoW does not have to be read because your just leveling and you want to do it fast. But WoW has certain important quests that are fully voiced so you have to hear whats going on. Like the Chen Stormstout and Lili chain. This quest chain was actually really good because of the voice actors. These voiced quests give you a good feel for the lore and areas you are visiting, since you can't skip voice acting really.

[Gramul]

Why do people want to set up camp somewhere and grind the same monsters for hours on end? Why is this a thing? And why do people want this to be the best/fastest way to level up, as opposed to varied content that will feed you lore and make you explore new areas? What the f**k?

Community building, not bound by quests telling you where to go, filter out terrible players, all sorts of stuff.
Never a huge fan of it myself, but I can recognize the appeal. It's for people who prefer a more gradual experience. A more mellow take on progression because they feel more satisfied when reaching a new tier for their patience and commitment.

[KiriA500]

Community building, not bound by quests telling you where to go, filter out terrible players, all sorts of stuff.
Never a huge fan of it myself, but I can recognize the appeal. It's for people who prefer a more gradual experience. A more mellow take on progression because they feel more satisfied when reaching a new tier for their patience and commitment.

Eh, not really.

-All the important stuff in World of Warcraft is still heavily party driven, so you still get the community building.
-Instead of a quest market telling you where to go, you had an internet guide. Everybody partied at the same places at the same levels.
-End-game had TONS of terrible players. It's not hard to be bad at an MMO.

I don't really see the "being satisfied" as an excuse. Half the time, when I beat something in FFXI, I thought to myself "about damn time." Yes, there was a challenge, but to say that games like World of Warcraft don't have challenges simply because leveling up isn't one of them is silly. I never understood why simply gaining levels in FFXI is seen as some sort of accomplishment...it was just time consuming.

Not even SE cared for the dialog when they showed off the video. Quest grinding is the exact same. It's there for grinding and making you level up. If every MMO "fed you lore with quest chaining" why is it that most people don't give a shit for the dialog it displays..? I know someone will say: "It was to save time"...yet plenty of other companies had no problem letting dialog in quests flow naturally like you're reading it.

When you're on a rail you're not going to be exploring, you're going to be led to the exact point of the quest and back.

I can't tell you how many people I had to explain what Dalamud was to in 1.0. Some people who play MMO's just don't care about story, they're all about 1337 skillz and uber pwnage!!!1 Just because some people skip all the quest stuff in other games doesn't mean everyone does. Stop generalizing because you hate WoW.