Alpha First Look: Video 5 - Quests and Combat

[Raven_Reborn]

To the people complaining about quest being the main way to get EXP ..... umm, hello Levequest from 1.0. What hell do you think THAT was? At least now we don't have to stand in one darn spot to get quests.. and they all have a story behind them now.

[Genjuro]

To the people complaining about quest being the main way to get EXP ..... umm, hello Levequest from 1.0. What hell do you think THAT was? At least now we don't have to stand in one darn spot to get quests.. and they all have a story behind them now.

See I agree. When you initiate a levequest you go and fight the same mobs at the same level over and over again. Take away the leve initiation and you're still fighting mobs over and over again. Same thing with the "WoW Method." They are all different methods to the same end, grinding.

[Rustyhagun]

See I agree. When you initiate a levequest you go and fight the same mobs at the same level over and over again. Take away the leve initiation and you're still fighting mobs over and over again. Same thing with the "WoW Method." They are all different methods to the same end, grinding.

Leve questing is the involve version of mob grinding. But most of you youngsters are to young to see that.

And I want my story driven mini side quests/missions. All RPG fans should want this. You don't like to read? Whats wrong with the gamers of this generation. Lore is Lore and any MMORPG gamer should welcome it. Or your just a wolf in the fold.

Main Story will have CS and even VO's. wait and see. We looking at alpha, once again.

FATE is a new system, which might be even better than GW2 version.

Crystal tower, if level based, might be a great way of gaining exp if its for mid to end level players (a tower that unlocks higher levels along side the level cap.. till lvl99) << I hope people aren't foolish enough to think Crystal tower will be fully playable for the current 50 level cap.

Bahamut's Lair

Grand Company missions, these are fun. Gaining up in your ranks to unlock new gear.

Who knows, maybe Old fashion grinding is viable with a party fighting mobs 6-9 levels higher than them. It just might take longer.

Anyways, I see a bit of ways to gain exp, with the above listed, in game features. Not sure why everyone is stressing over one lvl4 quest and one lvl10 quest. each being 2.5 mins each.

Along side:
-Fishing, Cooking, Foresting, WeaponSmith, Armoring, Goldsmithing, Alchemist, Woodsmith, Miner, Leathercraft.
-PvP (Instance style) Raids? Not much info.
-Raising/breeding Chocobo's
-GoldSaucer

-Hidden/easter eggs quests around the world (I would laugh if there are hidden, unlock-able quest that pop up, but only if the user completes certain vanilla quests first, in a specific order. Quests that branch out from other quest)

This game is all about the journey.

Sometimes, the vein on the side of my head pops out, reading some of y'alls fears. You naysayers are ruining, what could be a very fun experience. .... complaining about quest cuz you have to read and you can't progress fast to end end game..... pfft...... A.D.D, I tell ya

If the opposed player base can't except that. All the other WoW type, rush too lvl50 end game content mmorpg's, are there on the internet for quick download & play.

[Shurrikhan]

See I agree. When you initiate a levequest you go and fight the same mobs at the same level over and over again. Take away the leve initiation and you're still fighting mobs over and over again. Same thing with the "WoW Method." They are all different methods to the same end, grinding.

So what is the something special then? If all experience is a series of triggers and killing, what could make it unique?

The directorship? The interconnectivity? How interesting the plot points and fights are by themselves?

I don't disagree that be it mob grinds, leve grinds, or quest grinds, the only difference to the xp-expedient is amount of time between killing ex-reward triggers.

- - - - - - - - - -

On a side note though, just a small example with no defense intended, I enjoyed mob grinds over leve grinds because I was able to focus on my learning additional bits and practicalities of combat. In leves it simply felt unnecessarily mangled, distracting. In 1.0 quests, I really felt connected with the story. Regardless of xp, that was worth something to me. And if the mere triggers that compose those quests could be more widely used, so that they further felt a more fully integrated part of the world-exploration and leveling experience, that's just one of many ways they could be something really great.

And... a side note from the other side...
When going through generic WoW quests (in WoW, in this case), the less directed quests were often more fun. In other words, I'd often take the "kill large number of X" over the quicker, more story-based quests. This might sound contradictory to my enjoyment of 1.0 quests, but trust me, it's not. When given the length of time to really play around with a setting, or combat with a certain type of mob, etc, I was able to develop something more of my own. Often, the simple rare mob and slightly humorous dialog (if there were enough possibilities) added much more than the text leading to the quest, though this was especially true when the quest-text and those features coincided.

Back in those days, my interest was more on developing each quest as a setting for an experience, rather than a requirement checklist for experience points. I still believe that, while difficult, this is an admiral target for development.

Use of concept in mob-grinding

Real quick though: given all that, I do think this same kind of improvement can be done with mob-grinding too. When mite-grinding for the first time, there did seem to be enough unique between the party and the playing field that I felt I'd have the chance to progressively master this kind of fighting. My second time mite-grinding was a loop-system instead, through Copperbell Mines, and simply by switching classes it too felt highly different. I think there's a lot that can be done to vary the way these grinds can progress, perhaps with newer mechanics in un-instanced dungeons.

Let's take that same underground mite-grinding environment but add these:
- More types of mites, spawning due to relatively intentionally triggers (shouldn't be accidentally popped)
- Quick sand fields from large mites fleeing, some of them (noticeably different) leading to different areas
- Different mobs within the dungeon killable for
- War-horns mounted to some of the pillars, some meant to bring in mites, others meant to repel them.
--> leads to some mad retreats from horn to horn, or taking a center position to moves all mites to your location before diving down a hole to a different area, etc
--> A small percentage of mobs in type and number will try to get through anyways and destroy the horn to stop you from blowing it.
- In general, the entire instance is an intelligent enough computer, rather than just a spawning-zone, if you so choose (and trigger), and challenge should come with fair reward. These are simple enough ideas, but with good design they can make the previously tedious a highly enjoyable, highly replayable experience.

[Genjuro]

So what is the something special then? If all experience is a series of triggers and killing, what could make it unique?

The directorship? The interconnectivity? How interesting the plot points and fights are by themselves?

I don't disagree that be it mob grinds, leve grinds, or quest grinds, the only difference to the xp-expedient is amount of time between killing ex-reward triggers.

I don't know if such a thing as unique will be accepted by the majority of the population. I have stated in other posts before that we tried different and unique and that went down the crapper in 1.0.

I believe that having multiple methods would allow for people to explore their characters to the fullest extent in much the same way that you have had your experiences. Some may want to just grind as I have done in the past and am used to. Some may want levequests and the "WoW Method" to mask the monotony of grinding.

This is a game therefore the concept of "having fun" should be embedded into it's soul somewhere. What "having fun" means is personal to each person, therefore presenting all avenues would temper the water for everyone to explore the methods of each.

[Ashaylin]

At this point, I'm at an "I wish" state more than anything else - for FFXIV, and for future MMO's in general. I'm more interested in the idea of "Standardized Questing", however. To me, when something is "standardize", it boxes things in so that new ideas have a hard time expanding that box.

Do you guys believe it is out of the question to have quantity coupled with unique progression side quests?

I believe quantity and uniqueness are not mutually exclusive. The unique quests can be the same length as the more mundane ones. Additional manpower does not have to factor into the equation if you use the resources that already exists, and if that is true, time pressures will not occur, because then the only difference between the mundane and the unique is the idea.

I'm not an avid MMO player, but from what I have played and experienced, I think there is a tether to "quests" and "enemies & items" that stagnates developers' approaches to questing altogether. Why does questing have to involve either one of those two things? Here are some off the hand examples of different quests a developer can generate without enemies or items (i.e. gathering and fetching) being involved. The quests do not have to be elaborate, and I'd like to emphasize the idea of "simple yet different":

• Let the player travel to different marked areas and then return for a memorization test.
• Have players talk to several people who all tell contradictory tales. Let the player decide who is lying and report back. Make failing the quest possible.
• Make a hide and go seek quest with hints as to areas where the other npc is hiding, such as "What's grey and has turrets and is filled with disgruntled Garleans?" Randomize the hiding area every time and make the quest repeatable. Have the higher hide and seek quests make the player go through more dangerous terrain.

I'm sure developers can come up with more enjoyable quests, but what I'd like to make clear from that list is that with these few examples, the player isn't treated as an automaton. Rather, they engage the player on a slightly different level. The quests are nothing epic, but the players are made to explore; They're made to familiarize themselves with the lore; They're involved.

It's being toted around by the developers that the game is for everyone, so why not mix up the side quests so that they can be inclusive as well? Mix the "kill x of y" with the non-killing quests also. What's important is variety. Do you believe developers should try for anything less? The quests that you see in the video may be what many other MMOs have "standardized", and I will not argue that they have worked, but what I want to see is for MMO companies, especially SE, to go beyond what "just works". Don't you?


[I have to put a little disclaimer here because I'm writing all of this under the impression that these types of quests in the video are the main attraction, which more than likely is not the case, and it does not take the main story scenarios into account]

***

To the person who says, "Show me your game." I say that you don't need to be an artist to critique art, a writer to critique a book, a director to critique a movie, and in this case, a programmer to critique a game.

***

As to the video itself, I like it, but a few aesthetically jarring things stood out for me.

• The ! quest icons look huge and intrusive.
• The "Quest Accepted" and "Quest Complete" are also huge and are overly emphasized. Consider seeing those over and over again for the 100th time in a short time span.

[ZakarnRosewood]

At this point, I'm at an "I wish" state more than anything else - for FFXIV, and for future MMO's in general. I'm more interested in the idea of "Standardized Questing", however. To me, when something is "standardize", it boxes things in so that new ideas have a hard time expanding that box.

Do you guys believe it is out of the question to have quantity coupled with unique progression side quests?

I believe quantity and uniqueness are not mutually exclusive. The unique quests can be the same length as the more mundane ones. Additional manpower does not have to factor into the equation if you use the resources that already exists, and if that is true, time pressures will not occur, because then the only difference between the mundane and the unique is the idea.

I'm not an avid MMO player, but from what I have played and experienced, I think there is a tether to "quests" and "enemies & items" that stagnates developers' approaches to questing altogether. Why does questing have to involve either one of those two things? Here are some off the hand examples of different quests a developer can generate without enemies or items (i.e. gathering and fetching) being involved. The quests do not have to be elaborate, and I'd like to emphasize the idea of "simple yet different":

• Let the player travel to different marked areas and then return for a memorization test.
• Have players talk to several people who all tell contradictory tales. Let the player decide who is lying and report back. Make failing the quest possible.
• Make a hide and go seek quest with hints as to areas where the other npc is hiding, such as "What's grey and has turrets and is filled with disgruntled Garleans?" Randomize the hiding area every time and make the quest repeatable. Have the higher hide and seek quests make the player go through more dangerous terrain.

I'm sure developers can come up with more enjoyable quests, but what I'd like to make clear from that list is that with these few examples, the player isn't treated as an automaton. Rather, they engage the player on a slightly different level. The quests are nothing epic, but the players are made to explore; They're made to familiarize themselves with the lore; They're involved.

It's being toted around by the developers that the game is for everyone, so why not mix up the side quests so that they can be inclusive as well? Mix the "kill x of y" with the non-killing quests also. What's important is variety. Do you believe developers should try for anything less? The quests that you see in the video may be what many other MMOs have "standardized", and I will not argue that they have worked, but what I want to see is for MMO companies, especially SE, to go beyond what "just works". Don't you?


[I have to put a little disclaimer here because I'm writing all of this under the impression that these types of quests in the video are the main attraction, which more than likely is not the case, and it does not take the main story scenarios into account]

***

To the person who says, "Show me your game." I say that you don't need to be an artist to critique art, a writer to critique a book, a director to critique a movie, and in this case, a programmer to critique a game.

***

As to the video itself, I like it, but a few aesthetically jarring things stood out for me.

• The ! quest icons look huge and intrusive.
• The "Quest Accepted" and "Quest Complete" are also huge and are overly emphasized. Consider seeing those over and over again for the 100th time in a short time span.

It sounds like you just described the difference between NPC quests and the Mission quests. They only showed us "quests" so far, something that was not introduced in 1.0 for quite some time. in 1.0 they had the Hildebrand quests, this tells me they will have varied quest objectives, like the ones you are seeking. They have yet to show us how the LeveQuest system has changed, how the main storyline quests will go, how the Grand Company quests will go, and how the Job specific quests will go. I find it almost insulting to think that the devs are going to have every quest be "go here, kill this" when they have had varied quests in 1.0. They have said hildebrand will make a re-appearance, that right there says things will be varied.

[Genjuro]

At this point, I'm at an "I wish" state more than anything else - for FFXIV, and for future MMO's in general. I'm more interested in the idea of "Standardized Questing", however. To me, when something is "standardize", it boxes things in so that new ideas have a hard time expanding that box.

Do you guys believe it is out of the question to have quantity coupled with unique progression side quests?

I believe quantity and uniqueness are not mutually exclusive. The unique quests can be the same length as the more mundane ones. Additional manpower does not have to factor into the equation if you use the resources that already exists, and if that is true, time pressures will not occur, because then the only difference between the mundane and the unique is the idea.

I'm not an avid MMO player, but from what I have played and experienced, I think there is a tether to "quests" and "enemies & items" that stagnates developers' approaches to questing altogether. Why does questing have to involve either one of those two things? Here are some off the hand examples of different quests a developer can generate without enemies or items (i.e. gathering and fetching) being involved. The quests do not have to be elaborate, and I'd like to emphasize the idea of "simple yet different":

• Let the player travel to different marked areas and then return for a memorization test.
• Have players talk to several people who all tell contradictory tales. Let the player decide who is lying and report back. Make failing the quest possible.
• Make a hide and go seek quest with hints as to areas where the other npc is hiding, such as "What's grey and has turrets and is filled with disgruntled Garleans?" Randomize the hiding area every time and make the quest repeatable. Have the higher hide and seek quests make the player go through more dangerous terrain.

I'm sure developers can come up with more enjoyable quests, but what I'd like to make clear from that list is that with these few examples, the player isn't treated as an automaton. Rather, they engage the player on a slightly different level. The quests are nothing epic, but the players are made to explore; They're made to familiarize themselves with the lore; They're involved.

It's being toted around by the developers that the game is for everyone, so why not mix up the side quests so that they can be inclusive as well? Mix the "kill x of y" with the non-killing quests also. What's important is variety. Do you believe developers should try for anything less? The quests that you see in the video may be what many other MMOs have "standardized", and I will not argue that they have worked, but what I want to see is for MMO companies, especially SE, to go beyond what "just works". Don't you?


[I have to put a little disclaimer here because I'm writing all of this under the impression that these types of quests in the video are the main attraction, which more than likely is not the case, and it does not take the main story scenarios into account]

***

To the person who says, "Show me your game." I say that you don't need to be an artist to critique art, a writer to critique a book, a director to critique a movie, and in this case, a programmer to critique a game.

***

As to the video itself, I like it, but a few aesthetically jarring things stood out for me.

• The ! quest icons look huge and intrusive.
• The "Quest Accepted" and "Quest Complete" are also huge and are overly emphasized. Consider seeing those over and over again for the 100th time in a short time span.

Nicely put and good suggestions. I agree with your statements and ideas. I think that SE has shown that they can make something that's equivalent to the standard of what a modern day MMO has. What they have to do now is building upon the standard and evolve this into something that differentiates them from the rest of the crowd.

That will eventually be up to them in the end. But at the very least, they can establish themselves on the same playing field as their competition.

[strallaalaa]

@andrien on his last question... instanced dungeons, you get players trying to join that are just exp'ing. or want to run quests in it rather then just gear up. so you still have to shout

it makes it unentertaining since your doing both at same time. it also halves the content since your doing both at same time. when you hit the level you want you just move onto the next one so really the dungeon gear is just a bonus and the next dungeons and beyond you get fuk tards all half geared and making runs long and more tedious then it should of already been.

theres probably other things wrong with leveling in dungeons but i can't think of them at moment. but the biggest thing is it makes endgame underwelming and less epic when it was the same thing your just leveling with too.

oh and in the end what mmo has even gotten expansions lately? i not keeping track but i don't think many are really pulling out large new expansions. lot are failing ..going f2p and maybe after long time give small expansions. soooo, what is the point of endgame at all then? you don't need it for anything cause nothing new is coming lol.

[Andrien]

@andrien on his last question... instanced dungeons, you get players trying to join that are just exp'ing. or want to run quests in it rather then just gear up. so you still have to shout

it makes it unentertaining since your doing both at same time. it also halves the content since your doing both at same time. when you hit the level you want you just move onto the next one so really the dungeon gear is just a bonus and the next dungeons and beyond you get fuk tards all half geared and making runs long and more tedious then it should of already been.

theres probably other things wrong with leveling in dungeons but i can't think of them at moment. but the biggest thing is it makes endgame underwelming and less epic when it was the same thing your just leveling with too.

oh and in the end what mmo has even gotten expansions lately? i not keeping track but i don't think many are really pulling out large new expansions. lot are failing ..going f2p and maybe after long time give small expansions. soooo, what is the point of endgame at all then? you don't need it for anything cause nothing new is coming lol.

I think the devs said it loud and clear that certain dungeons are aimed for EXP. Ex: Lv45+ exp dungeons.
I don't think its fair to assume one dungeon is aimed for loot and exp, but I think there will be a detailed search function to recruit people based on what you're seeking.