Alpha First Look: Video 5 - Quests and Combat

[Kiote]

Isn't what you said there basically what's below?

1. Go to Quest Hub
2. Obtain one Quest in the Area
3. Leave Quest Hub
4. Complete simple Quest Objectives listed above
7. Return to Quest Hub

Only difference I saw was that you detailed the objectives in the quest. Kill Monsters, Trigger Object, Kill Monster/Trigger Object/Zone, Kill Monster/Trigger Object was basically all that you did.

No, there is a massive difference. What I wrote out is an Example of a Quest with progression. The WoW-like quests they demoed in this Video have no progression at all. They are nothing more than XP throw aways.

[Shurrikhan]

The fix, is very simple.

1. Go to NPC Hub
2. Select One Quest
3. Proceed to Location
4. Complete simple Quest Objective
5. Something Dangerous happens
6. Quest Objective - Run for your life
7. Get Saved by something
8. Examine the Previous Danger
9. Get call on your Linkshell from Quest Giver
10. Investigate what caused the danger
11. Get lead to some cool location like a dungeon
12. Unlocks a new area
13. Complete a starter objective in the dungeon
14. Bring your Findings to the NPC

But, but, this might feel something like actual Final Fantasy plot progressing quests...

[Linkurrra]

Here's the thing..

When you play a WoW-like MMO, level progression is always the same.

1. Go to Quest Hub
2. Obtain all Quest in the Area
3. Leave Quest Hub
4. Complete simple Quest Objectives listed above
5. Return to Quest Hub
6. Move to Next Quest Hub

This is mindless, repetitive and boring. Worse than that though, it makes people not want to read the Quests. They serve no purpose but XP. This severely degrades the enjoyability of the game. You might as well be doing an FFXI Party grind. At least in a party grind, your not alone.

The fix, is very simple.

1. Go to NPC Hub
2. Select One Quest
3. Proceed to Location
4. Complete simple Quest Objective
5. Something Dangerous happens
6. Quest Objective - Run for your life
7. Get Saved by something
8. Examine the Previous Danger
9. Get call on your Linkshell from Quest Giver
10. Investigate what caused the danger
11. Get lead to some cool location like a dungeon
12. Unlocks a new area
13. Complete a starter objective in the dungeon
14. Bring your Findings to the NPC

The Quests demonstrated in the Alpha video are the painfully boring cookie cutter WoW-Clone Quests that have destroyed this Genre by turning MMOs in to Single Player games. By simply adding plot twists and adding additional objectives to quests, you remove the boring NPC > Kill > NPC and create a Miniature story progression. Players will become immersed in the world and pushed to explore if the quest spontaneously pushes them away from their original destination and grouping will be Promoted by guiding players to group combat zones or boss fights.

NPC > Kill > NPC is the reason every WoW-Clone has failed to hold the attention of Modern Players.

Umm, what you described was a quest chain. How do you know that in the video that was shown wasn't smaller quests in a quest chain?

And one thing I would like to add, in how quests should flow. Is that some of the quests in the Quest chain have a no win scenario. Where you make a decision and it sends you off on a different quest path because of that decision.

Quests that put value in your actions are the most rewarding. Sure they are time consuming, but it makes things interesting.

And one thing to note about FFXIV, is that since we have one character, it would be nice if you could repeat these quests and pick the different path to take. The NPC just needs to notice that you are repeating the quest and say,
"Welcome back!, decided to take another stab at this quest?"

I would just prefer if the NPC, required you to complete the entire quest chain before you can complete it. That way you can come back with your lvl 15 Pug, Gla, Arc and do the quest but make different decisions to see a different outcome. Such quests take time to plan out carefully, but are worth the effort!

[TomCarroll]

Umm, what you described was a quest chain. How do you know that in the video that was shown wasn't smaller quests in a quest chain?

And one thing I would like to add, in how quests should flow. Is that some of the quests in the Quest chain have a no win scenario. Where you make a decision and it sends you off on a different quest path because of that decision.

Quests that put value in your actions are the most rewarding. Sure they are time consuming, but it makes things interesting.

And one thing to note about FFXIV, is that since we have one character, it would be nice if you could repeat these quests and pick the different path to take. The NPC just needs to notice that you are repeating the quest and say,
"Welcome back!, decided to take another stab at this quest?"

I would just prefer if the NPC, required you to complete the entire quest chain before you can complete it. That way you can come back with your lvl 15 Pug, Gla, Arc and do the quest but make different decisions to see a different outcome. Such quests take time to plan out carefully, but are worth the effort!

THIS. THIS. A THOUSAND TIMES THIS.

Most people haven't realized that this is currently what's happening in World of Warcraft. Quests aren't nearly as throw-away as they used to be, and to some degree they're almost engaging. Daily Quests still suck though.

[Kiote]

Umm, what you described was a quest chain. How do you know that in the video that was shown wasn't smaller quests in a quest chain?

Yes, what I wrote was similar to a quest chain, but with one major difference.

A quest chain a a series of the quests demoed with little text in between to fein interconnectivity.

What I wrote was a single experience designed to be played in a linear fashion.

The difference is subtle, but the impact on storytelling is massive.

[Biggs]

Here's the thing..

When you play a WoW-like MMO, level progression is always the same.

1. Go to Quest Hub
2. Obtain all Quest in the Area
3. Leave Quest Hub
4. Complete simple Quest Objectives listed above
5. Return to Quest Hub
6. Move to Next Quest Hub

This is mindless, repetitive and boring. Worse than that though, it makes people not want to read the Quests. They serve no purpose but XP. This severely degrades the enjoyability of the game. You might as well be doing an FFXI Party grind. At least in a party grind, your not alone.

The fix, is very simple.

1. Go to NPC Hub
2. Select One Quest
3. Proceed to Location
4. Complete simple Quest Objective
5. Something Dangerous happens
6. Quest Objective - Run for your life
7. Get Saved by something
8. Examine the Previous Danger
9. Get call on your Linkshell from Quest Giver
10. Investigate what caused the danger
11. Get lead to some cool location like a dungeon
12. Unlocks a new area
13. Complete a starter objective in the dungeon
14. Bring your Findings to the NPC

The Quests demonstrated in the Alpha video are the painfully boring cookie cutter WoW-Clone Quests that have destroyed this Genre by turning MMOs in to Single Player games. By simply adding plot twists and adding additional objectives to quests, you remove the boring NPC > Kill > NPC and create a Miniature story progression. Players will become immersed in the world and pushed to explore if the quest spontaneously pushes them away from their original destination and grouping will be Promoted by guiding players to group combat zones or boss fights.

NPC > Kill > NPC is the reason every WoW-Clone has failed to hold the attention of Modern Players.

You sound just POSiTIVE that will be the only option for the 100's of quests promised to us. NPC > Kill >Npc? There is NO possible way it could contain other quests (out of 100's of possible quests) that follow more along the format you laid out?
I bet you will still play this though and pay money to do so. So whats worse? A game designed after something that you yourself have stated is responsible for destroying the genre? Or someone that knowingly pays money to support said game they just "knew" was cookie cutter while at the same time condemning it?
You see how this is making people that say things like this look?

There is of course a third option. One that plays out in real time and is, IMO, whats going to happen. You will buy the game even though your SURE its a WOW clone (or try it anyway, you may not even pay a cent to do so being a vet) because, while the cynic in you is just SURE that its going to suck, the small little optimist in you that wants this game to do well, besides all the evidence you claim to provide to the contrary based on a 5 min alpha video, wants it to be good and do well. All thats left in this 3rd option is to see how things play out, but at least this way, if it doesn't go the way you want, you can then jump back on the forums and say I TOLD YOU SO for three to six months before moving on to something else. See you on here in april either way I guess man. Way to stand for something.

[Kiote]

You sound just POSiTIVE that will be the only option for the 100's of quests promised to us. NPC > Kill >Npc? There is NO possible way it could contain other quests (out of 100's of possible quests) that follow more along the format you laid out?
I bet you will still play this though and pay money to do so. So whats worse? A game designed after something that you yourself have stated is responsible for destroying the genre? Or someone that knowingly pays money to support said game they just "knew" was cookie cutter while at the same time condemning it?
You see how this is making people that say things like this look?

There is of course a third option. One that plays out in real time and is, IMO, whats going to happen. You will buy the game even though your SURE its a WOW clone (or try it anyway, you may not even pay a cent to do so being a vet) because, while the cynic in you is just SURE that its going to suck, the small little optimist in you that wants this game to do well, besides all the evidence you claim to provide to the contrary based on a 5 min alpha video, wants it to be good and do well. All thats left in this 3rd option is to see how things play out, but at least this way, if it doesn't go the way you want, you can then jump back on the forums and say I TOLD YOU SO for three to six months before moving on to something else. See you on here in april either way I guess man. Way to stand for something.

First off, Read before you respond. You just sound like a fool.

It's not about being sure. Forums are about feedback and debate. Silence Means Concession. I don't know if they are only doing simple WoW-clone quest, but I'm not going to sit by quietly while they demonstrate that they are doing them at all.

More importantly, I will not play this game if it becomes a WoW-like Quest Grind. Oversimplified quest that point you to all objectives are boring and a waste of time. There is no fun in it. I have never paid to play one before and FFXIV will be no different.

Final Fantasy is my favorite game series by far and without competition. The last three have been complete crap. If Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn is a WoW-Clone Quest Grind with no Depth, I will not play it and I will probably never buy another Final Fantasy Game again.

Not being irrational, just sick of watching my Favorite Series die a slow painful death.

[Denmo]

Jin, I love ya bro. You're a fun guy to play with and chat with. I'm just saying this because I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

I could do it with a group of friends, but when I want to an experience party I like to do it with different people to make even more in-game friends.

I played FFXI for 4 years. I was a WHM and EXP Partied every day, trying to be the best WHM I could.

Despite this, I can't recall any exp PUG I was in where people said, "Hey, you're a good WHM. Let's be friends and play together more often!"

Nor was I ever invited to an endgame linkshell for my grinding efforts. Most I ever got was an, "Oh hey, you're that WHM I partied with the other day, I think. Yeah... Sorry I only really remember people if they suck at their jobs."

It was also the case in XI that level difference meant you couldn't party with someone anymore. So if you played at a different pace of your friends, even if you friended them they wouldn't be able to EXP with you again due to level difference. (Level sync solved some of this, but not all. Generally, if everyone was too high for Colibri groups, they went and did their own things instead)

My point being - Whether it's dungeon content finder or EXP Party grinding, You don't necessarily make friends via these methods. More often than not, you're either already part of a social group or you insert yourself into a linkshell/guild as soon as you can.

You make friends by being a socially amiable person, and by going out of your way to help others. This is true in any social interaction, regardless of the game. Doesn't matter if it's EXP grinding or dungeon raiding.

So please stop trying to use this as an argument for EXP party Grinding vs solo quest content.

[Psykotsu]

First off, Read before you respond. You just sound like a fool.



More importantly, I will not play this game if it becomes a WoW-like Quest Grind. Oversimplified quest that point you to all objectives are boring and a waste of time. There is no fun in it. I have never paid to play one before and FFXIV will be no different.

Final Fantasy is my favorite game series by far and without competition. The last three have been complete crap. If Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn is a WoW-Clone Quest Grind with no Depth, I will not play it and I will probably never buy another Final Fantasy Game again.

Not being irrational, just sick of watching my Favorite Series die a slow painful death.

Quest grinding is mindless?

Hmm...

So what are your thoughts about monster grinding? in exp parties? Is that somehow...thought provoking?

I think I'm missing something.

[Xikeroth]

Quest based leveling will be more welcoming to the average gamer and even some hardcore gamers then the old FF formula of leveling. Bringing casual players into the game and boosting the population would be a great start for SE and the system does seem quite fun...

On the other hand seems like some logic needs to be thrown at the complainers.

Reading some posts, I fail to see how this leveling system is bad. "Oh they are making it quest grinds and making it too easy" And mindless abyssea style AoE grind parties AREN'T boring? I'm sorry but questing and going through a storyline progression is proven to be far more successful a formula then xp grinding. Don't forget SE is a COMPANY, profit is their number 1 goal. They spent a lot of money on this game so excuse them for trying to make the leveling aspect of this game mainstream and appeal to a larger audience. as a FF game they will have features that will set this game apart from the others and everyone knows that.

People call the questing thing mindless, at least you have the option to see some storyline content in the mix. Unlike all of you people that just grinded everything to 50 in an AoE party. That is far more mindless then questing. At least questing offers some sort of verity then sitting there at a camp and hitting the same mobs over... and over and over again.

Times have changed, Hardcore players are getting the shaft and they deserve it. The problem with all the WoW clones is they try to cater to the hardcore players, fail and don't have the casual players to back up their population and subscription base. Casual gamers are NEEDED, if they didn't have casual players WoW wouldn't be where it is, FFXI would be dead completely... even Call of Duty owes its success to the casual gamer. So you "hardcore gamers" really need to get over yourselves, You are no more important than someone that played maybe 8 hours per week. They pay the same subscription fee as you do.

Now you talk crap about SE for wanting to make a profit? They make a LOT more money by getting casual players into their game then they will hardcore players. Hardcore players will still have their place but casual players are NEEDED in order to make an MMO a success. In order for an MMO to be a success you need a lot of players.

One of the largest complaints about FFXIV is that leveling seemed like a pointless grind. People now in days even the hardcore players will take QUESTING over go to ____ camp and have _____ jobs AoE everything to death.

Casual players are the lifeblood of MMOs, not hardcore ones. Catering to the hardcore over the casual is basically like... having 100 people that want one thing and 10 people that want another. There is nothing keeping those 100 people here and the 10 can't sustain the system by themselves. You HAVE to cater to the majority and throw the minority a bone, not the other way around.

Casual players are the majority, hardcore are the minority. I'd don't see how making leveling more mainstream is possibly a bad thing. Maybe the "hardcore" people are just getting their panties in a bunch... but leveling was NEVER hard in this game it was actually more brain dead and mindless then quest-based leveling

Grind parties are more mindless and pathetic then quest-based leveling.