Alpha First Look: Video 5 - Quests and Combat

[ZakarnRosewood]

no matter what, in any mmo. example number. 50hours to hit max, then it's 50hours no matter what type of leveling it is. grind is grind. it's just preference and also how long you want the leveling to be. this type of leveling only works for those who love solo'ing and have short times to play. or between every quest likes to get up and check on there kids or whatever they do.

but in my opinion these are different types of mmo's and they need to start defining mmo's right away before we buy them so we stop waisting our time. the way mmo companies play is they try and get everyone they can to buy into there bs and it should become a law standard to define them for what they are prior to purchase not this really broad range of yeah it's a mmo. no no it's not.

Well, this is defined as an MMORPG. Tera would be an MMOARPG. League of Legends would be a MOBA, Diablo would be a ORPG, Dark Souls would be an ARPG, What kind of naming scheme are you looking for? MMO-C(asual)-RPG? MMO-H(ardcore)-RPG? I would see those distinctions to be rather unnecessary.

[stanleyyoung]

i think the markers and indicators should have a "toggle on/off" switch so that players can have a choice of how they want to do the quests (figure it out themselves without the markers and indicators or have the quests guide them step by step with markers and indicators).

this is to add to Talshara_Blade's comment, which I don't think will be difficult to implement..

I agree with this also, being able to toggle the markers etc is a nice addition to 2.0 no matter how small it seems. Most ppl either wont care about it or overlook it but some will really take advantage of it.

What I see really making 2.0 a success is not only all that main overhauls/ revamps to standardize the game but I think all the little stuff from birds flying in the background, fish moving around in the water, being able to toggle certain features on/off, plants/grass moving as u pass /walk through them, just the little things that will put 2.0 above all for you personally.

If SE can able players to personalize 2.0 to their liking/Needs to change and customize the game how they like that's a game winner. Say if the players could toggle the feature ffxii used during battle with the lines for attacking, being attack, AOE radius, etc would be cool for some and dumb for others and whatever to others. That's my 2 cents but when I see these alpha videos I pay attention to the little details not just the big ones straight in your face. An example I like the blue dots to mark a zone along with the name of the zone, some ppl say its stupid others could care less but for me it's neat and reminds me of 12.

[ZakarnRosewood]

But really, what makes it hardcore to begin with? time sink? I sunk less time into dark souls than i did a Zelda game and DS was much harder. I've heard complaints galore about what people see but little or no constructive feedback on how to change it, except from a few level headed folks. I hate to sound like an asshat but "I'd like to see you make a better game".

Myself I've thought it would be awesome to merge the MMO style of world and gameplay and have Soul Caliber style fights with epic boss monsters, but would this really be possible with current technology? Could internet connections realistically pump out enough data to keep up with that level of play? Could processors handle drawing that many battles going on? So on and so fourth.

I think having disparaging comments like most I see on the forums is more of a hindrance than a help. I wish people were considerate when leaving feedback. The creators of the game are real people. With how nasty things can get its a good thing they have people filter out the garbage posts, if I were Yoshi-P and I saw the stuff I do on a daily basis, I would probably say "you know what, I give up. There is no way to please everyone so lets just shut the whole project down."

[strallaalaa]

But really, what makes it hardcore to begin with? time sink? I sunk less time into dark souls than i did a Zelda game and DS was much harder. I've heard complaints galore about what people see but little or no constructive feedback on how to change it, except from a few level headed folks. I hate to sound like an asshat but "I'd like to see you make a better game".

Myself I've thought it would be awesome to merge the MMO style of world and gameplay and have Soul Caliber style fights with epic boss monsters, but would this really be possible with current technology? Could internet connections realistically pump out enough data to keep up with that level of play? Could processors handle drawing that many battles going on? So on and so fourth.

I think having disparaging comments like most I see on the forums is more of a hindrance than a help. I wish people were considerate when leaving feedback. The creators of the game are real people. With how nasty things can get its a good thing they have people filter out the garbage posts, if I were Yoshi-P and I saw the stuff I do on a daily basis, I would probably say "you know what, I give up. There is no way to please everyone so lets just shut the whole project down."

but the reality is that most the devs would of easily made a different game then the one we are getting. if they weren't sucked into a big ass corporation that buys up the little ones for breakfast they might of made something better. they probably all have thoughts and ideas for what they would like to add to mmo's. but it's side swiped by the big guys on top cause of the money. it doesn't mean it's the best mmo evvaaa, it's just good enough to get the most money. i can probably come up with a front to back idea for a mmo and it would do better then wow did. and if it didn't so what it wouldn't be the same mmo with different lore that i don't read. mmo standards can go to hell in a hand basket along with the corporate world. yoshi wouldn't shut it down cause it's all about the cash, the devs on the other hand are probably burnt out and annoyed at the gaming industry. just look it up and you'll see what these real devs think about the gaming industry.

heres one post about it. http://www.onrpg.com/MMO/Warhammer-O...rhammer-Failed and it's just a small part of it cause they deleted the real post that was huge and had tons and tons of devs from many companies talking shit too lol. and you can picture just removing the names he mentions and putting in the ones from SE devs to it and it is probably closest picture to what is happening there and in any mmo.

[Katella_Avenlea]

So the thing that I think a few people are missing is this is just an example video of quests and combat... not "in-depth documentation" that represents what all quests will look like. These are beginner quests for goodness sake! Take a breath, they are going to be easy. You don't throw brand new players into the fire immediately

RE: MMO Quests
Pure and simple, the purpose of a quest is to perform some task, (looking at Preypacer) I'm wondering what you really expected here? Quests in any MMO generally have you do one of the following:
* Tutorial - performing an action - learning controls
* Find/Speak to some NPC/object/place
* Defeat enemies
* gather/deliver items.

What more can you make a character in a virtual world do? Seriously? I'm excited to see a lot more of these side quests available personally. They may have similar base goal, but what will make them unique is the stories behind the quests, the atmosphere and the areas you have to brave to find your target goal.

...And why even have the quest dialog in there at all? Hell even the person in the video isn't taking the time to read it. And why bother? They have *3* different indicators showing you exactly where to go for the kill quest, and 2 showing you where to go for the "moist depression".

So the person in the video has a direct purpose. That purpose is to give a "quick" look at questing and combat in an example video. They are more showing off the "where to click" / "How you target/interact with an NPC/mob" aspects rather than truly delving into the example quest.

"Well, we have all this dialog but, you probably won't read it anyway. But, in case you do, you're probably too dumb to figure out where we're directing you to. So, we'll show you on the mini-map. And because you're probably too dumb to realize the circle on the mini-map indicates where you should be, we'll put markers for the mobs on the mini map too. Now don't panic... We know you're too dumb to figure it out even then. We've accounted for that by also putting large markers over the mobs' heads in-game too. You don't even have to know what the mobs are called or what they look like. Just look for the big, intrusive golden markers walking around."

*Sigh* So what you might not realize is that people learn and play in very different ways. Merely having options isn't them patronizing. From what they have said in the past, when ARR actually comes out, that you'll likely find that many of these "extra" markers are actually options that can be turned on or off. Don't like it? Turn it off.. problem solved, No reason to get frustrated.

I'm not sure why people sometimes feel that the way they play should be the "only" option. We should be open minded enough to realize that others may actually find those features helpful and it may improve their personal enjoyment of the game. Maybe it helps them to not feel as lost in a brand new world.. maybe they just want to play and not spend 20 minutes looking up a quest out-of-game to figure out a cryptic and vague summary.

Also, If people like these other feature options, it doesn't mean that they are dumb.. just means their playstyle is different then yours.. and that really is ok. To each their own. If these features help them gain more understanding as to what exactly their character is doing then great! Just because something doesn't fit your playstyle doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option.

Players like to blame, but they have just as much ownership in their own enjoyment level as the developers do. Don't like an option?, turn it off..... Want to get the entirety of the story?... then take a few minutes and read and don't rush through. MMO's just provide the stage, its really up to the player to provide the imagination.

[Kiote]

[COLOR="#9932cc"]So the thing that I think a few people are missing is this is just an example video of quests and combat... not "in-depth documentation" that represents what all quests will look like. These are beginner quests for goodness sake! Take a breath, they are going to be easy. You don't throw brand new players into the fire immediately

RE: MMO Quests
Pure and simple, the purpose of a quest is to perform some task, (looking at Preypacer) I'm wondering what you really expected here? Quests in any MMO generally have you do one of the following:
* Tutorial - performing an action - learning controls
* Find/Speak to some NPC/object/place
* Defeat enemies
* gather/deliver items.

What more can you make a character in a virtual world do?

Here's the thing..

When you play a WoW-like MMO, level progression is always the same.

1. Go to Quest Hub
2. Obtain all Quest in the Area
3. Leave Quest Hub
4. Complete simple Quest Objectives listed above
5. Return to Quest Hub
6. Move to Next Quest Hub

This is mindless, repetitive and boring. Worse than that though, it makes people not want to read the Quests. They serve no purpose but XP. This severely degrades the enjoyability of the game. You might as well be doing an FFXI Party grind. At least in a party grind, your not alone.

The fix, is very simple.

1. Go to NPC Hub
2. Select One Quest
3. Proceed to Location
4. Complete simple Quest Objective
5. Something Dangerous happens
6. Quest Objective - Run for your life
7. Get Saved by something
8. Examine the Previous Danger
9. Get call on your Linkshell from Quest Giver
10. Investigate what caused the danger
11. Get lead to some cool location like a dungeon
12. Unlocks a new area
13. Complete a starter objective in the dungeon
14. Bring your Findings to the NPC

The Quests demonstrated in the Alpha video are the painfully boring cookie cutter WoW-Clone Quests that have destroyed this Genre by turning MMOs in to Single Player games. By simply adding plot twists and adding additional objectives to quests, you remove the boring NPC > Kill > NPC and create a Miniature story progression. Players will become immersed in the world and pushed to explore if the quest spontaneously pushes them away from their original destination and grouping will be Promoted by guiding players to group combat zones or boss fights.

NPC > Kill > NPC is the reason every WoW-Clone has failed to hold the attention of Modern Players.

[ZakarnRosewood]

Here's the thing..

When you play a WoW-like MMO, level progression is always the same.

1. Go to Quest Hub
2. Obtain all Quest in the Area
3. Leave Quest Hub
4. Complete simple Quest Objectives listed above
5. Return to Quest Hub
6. Move to Next Quest Hub

This is mindless, repetitive and boring. Worse than that though, it makes people not want to read the Quests. They serve no purpose but XP. This severely degrades the enjoyability of the game. You might as well be doing an FFXI Party grind. At least in a party grind, your not alone.

The fix, is very simple.

1. Go to NPC Hub
2. Select One Quest
3. Proceed to Location
4. Complete simple Quest Objective
5. Something Dangerous happens
6. Quest Objective - Run for your life
7. Get Saved by something
8. Examine the Previous Danger
9. Get call on your Linkshell from Quest Giver
10. Investigate what caused the danger
11. Get lead to some cool location like a dungeon
12. Unlocks a new area
13. Complete a starter objective in the dungeon
14. Bring your Findings to the NPC

The Quests demonstrated in the Alpha video are the painfully boring cookie cutter WoW-Clone Quests that have destroyed this Genre by turning MMOs in to Single Player games. By simply adding plot twists and adding additional objectives to quests, you remove the boring NPC > Kill > NPC and create a Miniature story progression. Players will become immersed in the world and pushed to explore if the quest spontaneously pushes them away from their original destination and grouping will be Promoted by guiding players to group combat zones or boss fights.

NPC > Kill > NPC is the reason every WoW-Clone has failed to hold the attention of Modern Players.

and you are sure they wont have detailed quests like this in ARR based on.... the 5 min video?

[Kiote]

and you are sure they wont have detailed quests like this in ARR based on.... the 5 min video?

It's not about being sure. Forums are about feedback and debate. Silence Means Concession. I don't know if they are only doing simple WoW-clone quest, but I'm not going to sit by quietly while they demonstrate that they are doing them at all.

[Skies]

1. Go to NPC Hub
2. Select One Quest
3. Proceed to Location
4. Complete simple Quest Objective
5. Something Dangerous happens
6. Quest Objective - Run for your life
7. Get Saved by something
8. Examine the Previous Danger
9. Get call on your Linkshell from Quest Giver
10. Investigate what caused the danger
11. Get lead to some cool location like a dungeon
12. Unlocks a new area
13. Complete a starter objective in the dungeon
14. Bring your Findings to the NPC

Isn't what you said there basically what's below?

1. Go to Quest Hub
2. Obtain one Quest in the Area
3. Leave Quest Hub
4. Complete simple Quest Objectives listed above
7. Return to Quest Hub

Only difference I saw was that you detailed the objectives in the quest. Kill Monsters, Trigger Object, Kill Monster/Trigger Object/Zone, Kill Monster/Trigger Object was basically all that you did.

[Reika]

Isn't what you said there basically what's below?

1. Go to Quest Hub
2. Obtain one Quest in the Area
3. Leave Quest Hub
4. Complete simple Quest Objectives listed above
7. Return to Quest Hub

Only difference I saw was that you detailed the objectives in the quest. Kill Monsters, Trigger Object, Kill Monster/Trigger Object/Zone, Kill Monster/Trigger Object was basically all that you did.

His example is really one of taking one quest at a time instead of many. he's free to do one quest at a time if he wants, no ones forcing anyone to take all of them at once. Make it take as long as you like.

I said this same thing when people were bitching about the amount of quests TERA has.... you DO NOT need to do side quests. It's ones own OCD that forces obtain every single yellow ! quest in the area instead of the orange !.