Alpha First Look: Video 5 - Quests and Combat

[Hestern_Nestern]

Following are two snippets of Darshu's posts and my responses to him and to all:

God damn this community and their innate conformism to mediocrity.

Got all that what? Most of what I said had nothing to do with predicting how the entire game was going to be...

Please refrain from claiming to know or understand the attributes players (or people) possess. It's not polite - but there is more than a lack of manners in such things - there is a lack of prudence, also. It is not wise to make such grand claims about people on this forum or elsewhere or humanity itself based on the amount of data you have accumulated on this forum. I do not know you so I cannot say that this is a normal habit of yours - I can only say that I sincerely wish that this does not become a habit of yours. It's terrible for human relations and it's terrible for the health and growth of your inner being. It does not prove your intelligence or your prescience to have said that others are ridiculous - it conveys ignorance and rashness of judgment - though I do not claim either one of those are necessarily true of you (I do not know you enough to say). This harms your message's delivery - it makes it so others will not see the truths buried between the insults.

We must be fair. Not only to each other as players and posters, not only to ourselves, but also to the men and women who work diligently and passionately to complete this game. And it is true - we have been most unfair to them. We identify that this is a product and somehow because of that we lose our compassion for the people behind the product. I cannot abide by that. I must defend.

Let us consider for a moment that none of us knows much of note. Let us also consider that this alpha build is much older than its Beta counterpart. Yes, you are right in stating that "this is just alpha" is not a reasonable argument. On behalf of everyone else who has said this, I apologize. But it is also not a reasonable argument to state that one video made with the sole intent of showing us the questing (and battle) system is proof of every single quest that is to follow and for questing in general.

I understand that Yoshi-P wants to show us the best. I also understand that it is unlikely that the best quests the game has to offer exists within the five or more zones (I forget the exact number) available in the alpha. We know what alphas are generally used for in MMOs. We also know that SE thought that people were displeased with the lack of direction in the beginning portions of the game and had promised to make it so new players could integrate themselves into the game more easily. If these quests are a byproduct of a need for direction, then they have definitely succeeded. I also agree that having too much information when on a quest can be just as bad as having too little -- all of you are right in stating your claims for either side of that issue - but what is truer of both is that some balance must be made - between the ease of the quest and the mystery - in order for this questing system to be successful.

Let us be prudent, all, of what we claim to be true of the game and what we claim to be true of others.

~H.N.~

[Psykotsu]

no matter what, in any mmo. example number. 50hours to hit max, then it's 50hours no matter what type of leveling it is. grind is grind. it's just preference and also how long you want the leveling to be. this type of leveling only works for those who love solo'ing and have short times to play. or between every quest likes to get up and check on there kids or whatever they do.

but in my opinion these are different types of mmo's and they need to start defining mmo's right away before we buy them so we stop waisting our time. the way mmo companies play is they try and get everyone they can to buy into there bs and it should become a law standard to define them for what they are prior to purchase not this really broad range of yeah it's a mmo. no no it's not.

It's funny that you mention that you don't want to waste your time yet... that is exactly what the people against this quest type want to do in their MMOs.

Ironyyyyyy

[stanleyyoung]

i think the markers and indicators should have a "toggle on/off" switch so that players can have a choice of how they want to do the quests (figure it out themselves without the markers and indicators or have the quests guide them step by step with markers and indicators).

this is to add to Talshara_Blade's comment, which I don't think will be difficult to implement..

I agree with this also, being able to toggle the markers etc is a nice addition to 2.0 no matter how small it seems. Most ppl either wont care about it or overlook it but some will really take advantage of it.

What I see really making 2.0 a success is not only all that main overhauls/ revamps to standardize the game but I think all the little stuff from birds flying in the background, fish moving around in the water, being able to toggle certain features on/off, plants/grass moving as u pass /walk through them, just the little things that will put 2.0 above all for you personally.

If SE can able players to personalize 2.0 to their liking/Needs to change and customize the game how they like that's a game winner. Say if the players could toggle the feature ffxii used during battle with the lines for attacking, being attack, AOE radius, etc would be cool for some and dumb for others and whatever to others. That's my 2 cents but when I see these alpha videos I pay attention to the little details not just the big ones straight in your face. An example I like the blue dots to mark a zone along with the name of the zone, some ppl say its stupid others could care less but for me it's neat and reminds me of 12.

[ZakarnRosewood]

no matter what, in any mmo. example number. 50hours to hit max, then it's 50hours no matter what type of leveling it is. grind is grind. it's just preference and also how long you want the leveling to be. this type of leveling only works for those who love solo'ing and have short times to play. or between every quest likes to get up and check on there kids or whatever they do.

but in my opinion these are different types of mmo's and they need to start defining mmo's right away before we buy them so we stop waisting our time. the way mmo companies play is they try and get everyone they can to buy into there bs and it should become a law standard to define them for what they are prior to purchase not this really broad range of yeah it's a mmo. no no it's not.

Well, this is defined as an MMORPG. Tera would be an MMOARPG. League of Legends would be a MOBA, Diablo would be a ORPG, Dark Souls would be an ARPG, What kind of naming scheme are you looking for? MMO-C(asual)-RPG? MMO-H(ardcore)-RPG? I would see those distinctions to be rather unnecessary.

[strallaalaa]

It's funny that you mention that you don't want to waste your time yet... that is exactly what the people against this quest type want to do in their MMOs.

Ironyyyyyy

lol i know it's mostly preference and state of mind i guess but that goes both ways. but all in all, ffxi created me and now SE wants to toss me aside like a dumpster baby.


@ ZakarnRosewood ...the difference is huge. it's the difference between say dark souls or mario kart. or facebook to cyber sex sites. other genre's other then rpg's usually have multiple difficulties so they don't need to and even rpg's are starting to have difficulties or make you beat the game over an over to get the harder versions. either way if it's so important for them to say it's casual now then it's for a distinct reason and is necessary to them right?

[ZakarnRosewood]

But really, what makes it hardcore to begin with? time sink? I sunk less time into dark souls than i did a Zelda game and DS was much harder. I've heard complaints galore about what people see but little or no constructive feedback on how to change it, except from a few level headed folks. I hate to sound like an asshat but "I'd like to see you make a better game".

Myself I've thought it would be awesome to merge the MMO style of world and gameplay and have Soul Caliber style fights with epic boss monsters, but would this really be possible with current technology? Could internet connections realistically pump out enough data to keep up with that level of play? Could processors handle drawing that many battles going on? So on and so fourth.

I think having disparaging comments like most I see on the forums is more of a hindrance than a help. I wish people were considerate when leaving feedback. The creators of the game are real people. With how nasty things can get its a good thing they have people filter out the garbage posts, if I were Yoshi-P and I saw the stuff I do on a daily basis, I would probably say "you know what, I give up. There is no way to please everyone so lets just shut the whole project down."

[Katella_Avenlea]

So the thing that I think a few people are missing is this is just an example video of quests and combat... not "in-depth documentation" that represents what all quests will look like. These are beginner quests for goodness sake! Take a breath, they are going to be easy. You don't throw brand new players into the fire immediately

RE: MMO Quests
Pure and simple, the purpose of a quest is to perform some task, (looking at Preypacer) I'm wondering what you really expected here? Quests in any MMO generally have you do one of the following:
* Tutorial - performing an action - learning controls
* Find/Speak to some NPC/object/place
* Defeat enemies
* gather/deliver items.

What more can you make a character in a virtual world do? Seriously? I'm excited to see a lot more of these side quests available personally. They may have similar base goal, but what will make them unique is the stories behind the quests, the atmosphere and the areas you have to brave to find your target goal.

...And why even have the quest dialog in there at all? Hell even the person in the video isn't taking the time to read it. And why bother? They have *3* different indicators showing you exactly where to go for the kill quest, and 2 showing you where to go for the "moist depression".

So the person in the video has a direct purpose. That purpose is to give a "quick" look at questing and combat in an example video. They are more showing off the "where to click" / "How you target/interact with an NPC/mob" aspects rather than truly delving into the example quest.

"Well, we have all this dialog but, you probably won't read it anyway. But, in case you do, you're probably too dumb to figure out where we're directing you to. So, we'll show you on the mini-map. And because you're probably too dumb to realize the circle on the mini-map indicates where you should be, we'll put markers for the mobs on the mini map too. Now don't panic... We know you're too dumb to figure it out even then. We've accounted for that by also putting large markers over the mobs' heads in-game too. You don't even have to know what the mobs are called or what they look like. Just look for the big, intrusive golden markers walking around."

*Sigh* So what you might not realize is that people learn and play in very different ways. Merely having options isn't them patronizing. From what they have said in the past, when ARR actually comes out, that you'll likely find that many of these "extra" markers are actually options that can be turned on or off. Don't like it? Turn it off.. problem solved, No reason to get frustrated.

I'm not sure why people sometimes feel that the way they play should be the "only" option. We should be open minded enough to realize that others may actually find those features helpful and it may improve their personal enjoyment of the game. Maybe it helps them to not feel as lost in a brand new world.. maybe they just want to play and not spend 20 minutes looking up a quest out-of-game to figure out a cryptic and vague summary.

Also, If people like these other feature options, it doesn't mean that they are dumb.. just means their playstyle is different then yours.. and that really is ok. To each their own. If these features help them gain more understanding as to what exactly their character is doing then great! Just because something doesn't fit your playstyle doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option.

Players like to blame, but they have just as much ownership in their own enjoyment level as the developers do. Don't like an option?, turn it off..... Want to get the entirety of the story?... then take a few minutes and read and don't rush through. MMO's just provide the stage, its really up to the player to provide the imagination.

[Nox]

Finally have more than levequests? We had quests in 1.0. Have you played it? Quests in 1.0 had way more dialogue than this. We didn't have more quests because they decided to rebuild the whole game. Yoshida has said "this is only alpha" is never an excuse for bad content, so please, stop using it. Animations are horrendously stiff, specially the lancer, but I don't think they'll get much better than that. I hope we can remove that fucking red circle, it looks like shit. The players being higher level but having their HP drop to less than 50% health shows we will either be tackling content that is lower than our own lv when solo, or will be constantly dying attempting anything higher. If those hoglets were lv 15, she would have died. This type of quest is disgusting, but not surprising. Surprising is the reception from the majority of players here, and their brains seemingly unable to imagine ANYTHING that differs from this old formula. It's really impressive how unimaginative you can be. Unfortunately to some of us these quests look boring, uncreative and stupid, we can in fact quite easily imagine something better than this, and we truly wish we had any way to do it. No, there are no other popular MMORPGs with quests that are any better than this, which is precisely why this game is following the trend. It's still shit. Yoshida will not show content that doesn't represent best what the game is going to be, and since it has already pleased most of you, shut it with the "there will be harder more interesting content later on". This is as interesting as you want it. Also, no one but one or two are advocating for vague, impossible to grasp quest content. Your childish arguments all seem to revolve around "if you don't like white then you probably want black", "it's still alpha" and "every kid is doing it". God damn this community and their innate conformism to mediocrity.

then please sir, stop QQing and use your amazing imagination (which according to you is much better than ours) to describe to us what will work in ARR to introduce new players to the game. We are all waiting. please describe in detail how how your amazing idea will 1. be better 2. how it can be produced at a proper pace in order to not just release a handful of quests a month, and 3. how it will help to intergrate new people into the game. The type of quest shown is by definition meant to be easy, not only is it a low level quest, but it is clearly catered towards solo play.

Also, No this is not as interesting as we want it, but it is as interesting as low level stuff is going to get and that is fine. It is essentiallyalmost tutorial like. We already know the type of challenging content we will get at end game, Ifrit extreme, Garuda, and nael Van Darnus (hard) were a clear example of that. Keep in mind that not all content needs to be difficult content.

[Xikeroth]

Quest based leveling will be more welcoming to the average gamer and even some hardcore gamers then the old FF formula of leveling. Bringing casual players into the game and boosting the population would be a great start for SE and the system does seem quite fun...

On the other hand seems like some logic needs to be thrown at the complainers.

Reading some posts, I fail to see how this leveling system is bad. "Oh they are making it quest grinds and making it too easy" And mindless abyssea style AoE grind parties AREN'T boring? I'm sorry but questing and going through a storyline progression is proven to be far more successful a formula then xp grinding. Don't forget SE is a COMPANY, profit is their number 1 goal. They spent a lot of money on this game so excuse them for trying to make the leveling aspect of this game mainstream and appeal to a larger audience. as a FF game they will have features that will set this game apart from the others and everyone knows that.

People call the questing thing mindless, at least you have the option to see some storyline content in the mix. Unlike all of you people that just grinded everything to 50 in an AoE party. That is far more mindless then questing. At least questing offers some sort of verity then sitting there at a camp and hitting the same mobs over... and over and over again.

Times have changed, Hardcore players are getting the shaft and they deserve it. The problem with all the WoW clones is they try to cater to the hardcore players, fail and don't have the casual players to back up their population and subscription base. Casual gamers are NEEDED, if they didn't have casual players WoW wouldn't be where it is, FFXI would be dead completely... even Call of Duty owes its success to the casual gamer. So you "hardcore gamers" really need to get over yourselves, You are no more important than someone that played maybe 8 hours per week. They pay the same subscription fee as you do.

Now you talk crap about SE for wanting to make a profit? They make a LOT more money by getting casual players into their game then they will hardcore players. Hardcore players will still have their place but casual players are NEEDED in order to make an MMO a success. In order for an MMO to be a success you need a lot of players.

One of the largest complaints about FFXIV is that leveling seemed like a pointless grind. People now in days even the hardcore players will take QUESTING over go to ____ camp and have _____ jobs AoE everything to death.

Casual players are the lifeblood of MMOs, not hardcore ones. Catering to the hardcore over the casual is basically like... having 100 people that want one thing and 10 people that want another. There is nothing keeping those 100 people here and the 10 can't sustain the system by themselves. You HAVE to cater to the majority and throw the minority a bone, not the other way around.

Casual players are the majority, hardcore are the minority. I'd don't see how making leveling more mainstream is possibly a bad thing. Maybe the "hardcore" people are just getting their panties in a bunch... but leveling was NEVER hard in this game it was actually more brain dead and mindless then quest-based leveling

Grind parties are more mindless and pathetic then quest-based leveling.

[Andrien]

I'm looking over the combat video again, and I can't help but notice just how similar it is to Final Fantasy XII. The arrow aggro indicators, and enmity level is nicely done.