Alpha First Look: Video 5 - Quests and Combat

[Biggs]

People that keep going on about "cookie cutter" quests are going to need to pony up some seriously sweet examples of which MMO's don't do this as part of the game structure or quickly zip it. Not trying to white knight this thing, but your responses are based on 3 mins of video showing a higher level character doing low level fetch quests. Kind of a soggy cardboard soap box your standing on if you ask me......Its ok, I can wait while you look up all those examples you must keep drawing from.......

[Zezlar]

People that keep going on about "cookie cutter" quests are going to need to pony up some seriously sweet examples of which MMO's don't do this as part of the game structure or quickly zip it. Not trying to white knight this thing, but your responses are based on 3 mins of video showing a higher level character doing low level fetch quests. Kind of a soggy cardboard soap box your standing on if you ask me......Its ok, I can wait while you look up all those examples you must keep drawing from.......

That's exactly the point. They aren't offering anything new but more of the same. Final Fantasy is held at a high standard for storytelling and questing. Final Fantasy XIV 1.0 had complaints about the cookie cutter quests, and now 2.0 will have those x6000 per year. Riveting.

They decided for quantity over quality in the end.

[Biggs]

That's exactly the point. They aren't offering anything new but more of the same. Final Fantasy is held at a high standard for storytelling and questing. Final Fantasy XIV 1.0 had complaints about the cookie cutter quests, and now 2.0 will have those x6000 per year. Riveting.

They decided for quantity over quality in the end.

I won't argue at all that they are held to a high standard in game design and story telling, but no offense here, virtually ALL of their games have fetch quests identicle to the ones seen in the video. I am failing to see why anyone is suprised they would include these in 2.0.

Besides that, if its so easy to reinvent the wheel here like many of you are suggesting, go ahead and spitball 1 or 2 ways you would rather see this done that no one has ever done before......

Don't get me wrong, I 100% understand what you all are asking for, I just think that conceptually it sounds a LOT easier than it actually is to pull off in a way thats successful, especially since we are talking about a game that already failed trying to take a bunch of risks.

[Zezlar]

I won't argue at all that they are held to a high standard in game design and story telling, but no offense here, virtually ALL of their games have fetch quests identicle to the ones seen in the video. I am failing to see why anyone is suprised they would include these in 2.0.

Besides that, if its so easy to reinvent the wheel here like many of you are suggesting, go ahead and spitball 1 or 2 ways you would rather see this done that no one has ever done before......

Don't get me wrong, I 100% understand what you all are asking for, I just think that conceptually it sounds a LOT easier than it actually is to pull off in a way thats successful, especially since we are talking about a game that already failed trying to take a bunch of risks.

Square-Enix doesn't need to reinvent the wheel, but they can at least create a sturdy quality based product rather then churning out hundreds of wobbly unfinished ones. Sending characters on adventures through the world to explore, to undertake grand assignments to better the realm. These are the types of things I want. Fighting 6 chickens, and then 8 goats x1,000 but varied monsters sucks balls. What Square-Enix is doing is just copying off of other MMOs...and lately I haven't seen many successful ones.

[Denmo]

Square-Enix doesn't need to reinvent the wheel, but they can at least create a sturdy quality based one. Sending characters on adventures through the world to explore, to undertake grand assignments to better the realm. These are the types of things I want. Fighting 6 chickens, and then 8 goats x1,000 but varied monsters sucks balls. What Square-Enix is doing is just copying off of other MMOs...and lately I haven't seen many successful ones.

Because every player has already saved the world 3 times by level 7, and their quest for level 8 is to fight universe-destroying world eaters?

Because you've seen every quest FFXIV:ARR has to offer based on the 2 quests shown in the video?

Are you in Alpha or something? SHOULD WE ALL BE WORRIED?

[Elexia]

That's exactly the point.

I also distinctly remember people saying "This is Final Fantasy, even if we quest grind it will be nothing but high quality storylines and action packed, it won't be like WoW or Tera."




Anyway, the music I dislike the style of, but it doesn't really fit with general battle given the tonality of it but I can definitely see it moved towards boss fights in starter dungeons. At least it's shaping up very nicely to being a typical MMORPG, now let's see what will set it apart from everyone besides the Final Fantasy name.

FFXI took EQ and ran away with the concept into something unique, let's see if ARR can do this with the "WoW formula" as they say these days.

[Psykotsu]

I also distinctly remember people saying "This is Final Fantasy, even if we quest grind it will be nothing but high quality storylines and action packed, it won't be like WoW or Tera."

Anyway, the music I dislike the style of, but it doesn't really fit with general battle given the tonality of it but I can definitely see it moved towards boss fights in starter dungeons. At least it's shaping up very nicely to being a typical MMORPG, now let's see what will set it apart from everyone besides the Final Fantasy name.

FFXI took EQ and ran away with the concept into something unique, let's see if ARR can do this with the "WoW formula" as they say these days.

It will, but I think it will be harder for you and others, (people who repeat the same points about it being like WoW and "generic"), to see because you will try to forcefully find differences between WoW and ARR down to it's programming code. The difference between XI and EQ is that people didn't even realize the game was a copy due to the fact that XI brought many of it's players in the MMO world. A lot of them hadn't even heard of EQ before then.

Is the handholding any different than a single player RPG world being designed solely with the intent of guiding a player to the next part of the story? (Ex: The only accessible town in FF3 at the beginning just happens to be the starter town, even though you have a boat to explore with.). The game doesn't necessarily have to tell you where to go, because the developer knows that even if you butt your head into every wall available like an idiot, you'll still end up where you need to be. You're not "set free" until the game has - by virtue of design and story telling - guided you through enough of the game to where you feel comfortable in setting out on your own (IE: obtaining an airship in FF6)

It just can't be the same with MMOs. MMO's are complex beasts from a play design perspective because they have to accommodate for multiple players of all ranges doing all sorts of different things. There are techniques for hinting at where players should be at what level (hostile mobs blocking access to higher level areas), but ultimately in an open world, a new player will get lost when trying to figure out what to do next. First gen MMOs have tried to just let players figure it out for themselves, but it never seems to be enough and it's not a very user-friendly way of doing things. Some players 'enjoy' this. Or rather, they 'enjoy' the status they feel they obtained by roughing it out even though they know it was bad game design (See: FFXI endgame, Legacy Members [like me!], and elite EQ players). The quests offered in modern MMOs are designed to do the same things the story in single player RPGs do: Guide the player from point A to point B until they feel comfortable with the world. At least in ARR, we can expect quests with a good bit of flavor and meaning to them.

Final Fantasy has never been particularly difficult. I don't recall ever throwing my controller at the screen while fighting my way through Balamb Garden in FF8 (though I did smash in the PSOne power button when I lost my Shiva card to some random jack-off in a TripTriad game). You're constantly going from point A to point B killing hordes of random encounters that mean nothing to the story except to make you stronger. How then, is the quest system XIV:ARR is using such a step back for the genre?

You make a great point and it's not a step-backward whatsoever. I think people want just want players to "suffer" in the "difficulty" they did in XI. @_@

[Elexia]

It will, but I think it will be harder for you and others, (people who repeat the same points about it being like WoW and "generic"),

Yeah, I'm still waiting for an MMO to do the quest progression differently, so far as of today, they all end up exactly. the. same. way.

Deny it as much as you want, you're guaranteed to see the same style quest repeated everywhere you go even if it mixes it up between:

"Kill 10 boars!"
"Go pick 5 vegitables!"
"Roll that rock down the hill!"

You'll repeat these 3 types of quests 100x over every hub you go to. Let's not forget the dungeons that tend to also repeat in objectives unless they're linked to a story, which is very rarely.

[RexValentino]

I too, thought the quests in ffxi, etc. were very enjoyable and extremely deep. Though, I don't think i enjoyed those quests because the people to talk with or the places to examine were hard to find. I was always on the wiki so i knew where i was going and what i was doing. Constantly being on another computer or alt-tabbed, was a bit annoying.

I think the best part of side questing in ffxi, etc. was how the quest tied in with the main storyline and how well they were written. I don't feel like new components in the user interface take away from the ability to get into side quests if they are well written and tie into the main story, or with each other. It does seem like this is an option, so i think if you wanted to have a bit more of a challenge in finding things you don't have to click on the help text for more info or the map markers.

I prefer in game help rather than a constant website hunt XD. The User Interface and the ability to get info in game fast is a great OPTION they are giving us! <yes, please!>

The thing i noticed lacking, that might have made the SIDE QUESTS a tad more enjoyable, is that there were no mini cut scenes and camera angles and npc movement ... mood setting devices. I love these, though i know a lot of the grab and go type of guys don't ^^; But i'm sure they will be used in the main story line, and probably the more meaningful sidequests.

[RoninDarkchild]

Did someone just say FFXI had a good quest system??? Super vague quests that dont tell you what youre looking for, or where.... forcing 98% of the game population to look up a wiki, or shout in town for just basic direction.... if you like directionless question with no markers dont look at the map then... go explore to your hearts content...

telling you what area to go to, and what npc to speak with, and what thing to defeat is basic quest structure...
FFXI questing was stupid...