Thread: What I expect of Black Mage/ Thaumaturgy in 2.0

Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Comboing different spells together. Example will be an iron giant.

You use fire spells over and over, the iron giant becomes a vibrating red, hit him with a powerful ice spell and you just rapid cooled metal, making it temporarily immobile.

Best part of it? Black Mage would have an interesting way to enfeeble, while not actually using the spell, allowing other jobs to carry the enfeeble spells themselves.

Love it, as I think I've mentioned before. Well, this would certainly make fire and ice more useful in combat, but how about the actual amount of spells? Do you still want to be using primarily just Tier I spells, and "combo-ing" up the tiers occasionally? Would rather not use tiers? What kind of tactical differences should there be between tiers? (Certainly not just AoE / ST, even if certain patterns (each with progression of spells) would obviously suit one or the other better.)

I like the way tiers are setup now with lower tiers comboing to higher ones, however... And this is a big however... They should allow combos between elements while going up the tiers, each with unique combo bonuses. Like:

Thunder - Thundara
Thunder - Fira
Fire - Blizarra - Thundaga

These should all lead to different combo bonuses depending on what the prior spell was.

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

A bit too specific for a reasonable expectation to express, but I agree with most of your underlying suggestions.

A few things from me:

BLM is fine with just primarily fire/thunder/ice. The no penalty thing for what I assume is regarding water/stone/aero is unnecessary. Leave those to WHM.

I hope for more creative magic effects and skill design than what you have listed out.

Though we can agree current BLM is not okay. Though I think after MNK it's the most changing job so I suspect we'll be pleased.

I would prefer elemental spells for BLM and make new ones for conjurer/whm, whats the deal of not having all the spells for a DD mage class? WHM should be healer, the best healer and only that, leave the rest of the job to the DD's, conjurer in the other hand should have the option of using more cross class damage spells, i miss how thaumaturge was at the begining, really unique. If you're in a party fighting a boss that resist some kind of spell... you should be able as blm to choose wich spell is more efective by having the complete elemental wheel at your disposal.

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

I like the way tiers are setup now with lower tiers comboing to higher ones, however... And this is a big however... They should allow combos between elements while going up the tiers, each with unique combo bonuses. Like:

Thunder - Thundara
Thunder - Fira
Fire - Blizarra - Thundaga

These should all lead to different combo bonuses depending on what the prior spell was.

In locked combos, or each with unique basic (but therefore versatile) additions? Would each have unique factor calculations as well, or should even calculations and the unique additions be enough?

What would be a full list of the ways in which (in your mind) higher tiers would differ from lower tiers, spell-by-spell or in general?

Originally Posted by elreed

I would prefer elemental spells for BLM and make new ones for conjurer/whm, whats the deal of not having all the spells for a DD mage class? WHM should be healer, the best healer and only that, leave the rest of the job to the DD's, conjurer in the other hand should have the option of using more cross class damage spells, i miss how thaumaturge was at the begining, really unique. If you're in a party fighting a boss that resist some kind of spell... you should be able as blm to choose wich spell is more efective by having the complete elemental wheel at your disposal.

Personally I could go either way on the spell wheel in regards to BLM. FFXIV has little lore to stand in the way of either decision. If to further a class niche, my slight preference would be towards mastering the deadly effects of the three dark elements, and setting our utility from a purely offensive standpoint. It feels more devastating yet fragile to me, in more ways than just being a glass cannon, and I think I'd really enjoy that.

I'd also enjoy being able to use every element, but that feels more like a Conjurer to me, or a hybrid along the lines of a true jack-of-all-trades elementalist, for whom precise coordination of all six is paramount. But that's an altogether different feeling to the class/job, and not what I'd imagine of a Black Mage.

In regards to white mage, I enjoy having some utility and the light side of the elemental wheel does serve that purpose pretty well. It could certainly use something else, but I usually find an absolute "pure healer" only fun to play when in a raid taking enough damage that I don't realize I'm being limited to such an enclosed role, and even then I'd prefer to disperse, focus, amplify, etc that healing through other (not strictly healing-related) mechanics.

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Personally I could go either way on the spell wheel in regards to BLM. FFXIV has little lore to stand in the way of either decision. If to further a class niche, my slight preference would be towards mastering the deadly effects of the three dark elements, and setting our utility from a purely offensive standpoint. It feels more devastating yet fragile to me, in more ways than just being a glass cannon, and I think I'd really enjoy that.

I'd also enjoy being able to use every element, but that feels more like a Conjurer to me, or a hybrid along the lines of a true jack-of-all-trades elementalist, for whom precise coordination of all six is paramount. But that's an altogether different feeling to the class/job, and not what I'd imagine of a Black Mage.

In regards to white mage, I enjoy having some utility and the light side of the elemental wheel does serve that purpose pretty well. It could certainly use something else, but I usually find an absolute "pure healer" only fun to play when in a raid taking enough damage that I don't realize I'm being limited to such an enclosed role, and even then I'd prefer to disperse, focus, amplify, etc that healing through other (not strictly healing-related) mechanics.

I know what you mean, speaking of whm mostly if they had a different type of spell would help a lot on giving a more dispersed role, but i played several times as whm on hamlet defense events and it was a really hard job to keep every npc healthy enough, you could spend all the event time heLing like crazy without-noticing how much time did pass already, if they make the fights hard enough you wont need anything else in your role same as a tank your job ends until the boss is down

Originally Posted by elreed

I know what you mean, speaking of whm mostly if they had a different type of spell would help a lot on giving a more dispersed role, but i played several times as whm on hamlet defense events and it was a really hard job to keep every npc healthy enough, you could spend all the event time heLing like crazy without-noticing how much time did pass already, if they make the fights hard enough you wont need anything else in your role same as a tank your job ends until the boss is down

That's true, but whether as a tank, a dps, support, healer, etc, there are often pursuits that support your role even outside of playing in that role. You can spend the whole fight sponging up damage to keep others from being hit and feel like you're playing your role intensely, but there is often a way of fighting in which no one takes damage, if one merely looks for it. Dps might be able to lay off damage in certain orders to bring a boss down a line of target-changes in order to avoid defensive effects. Support can often switch to focusing down sabotaging enemies rather than providing the same buffs over and over as they're dispelled. Healers can try to keep people from taking damage in the first place.

And that's where the fun of strategy comes into play, in mixing the avoidable and unavoidable elements, and the ways to approach each, rather than simply assuming a single bodied unit of damage-taken, damage-restored, damage-dealt.

It's for those reasons that I'd prefer that neither BLM nor WHM end up "pure" role jobs. Utility should still be possible for either one, in order to actually better pursue their roles, and do so more creatively and enjoyably.

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

A bit too specific for a reasonable expectation to express, but I agree with most of your underlying suggestions.

A few things from me:

BLM is fine with just primarily fire/thunder/ice. The no penalty thing for what I assume is regarding water/stone/aero is unnecessary. Leave those to WHM.

I hope for more creative magic effects and skill design than what you have listed out.

Though we can agree current BLM is not okay. Though I think after MNK it's the most changing job so I suspect we'll be pleased.

whm should have holy and banish not damage elemental spells. That is what a FF blm is about having all elemental damage spells and few non-elemental ones. a whm has holy spells not blackmage spells.

Lets get RDM or SCH already so everyone can be happy!!!!!!!!!!!