The level link between Jobs and Classes

[Zyph]

FFXI actually has a logistic nightmare.. maybe you weren't aware of that.. so thats why i thought you where for me

Also FFXI has you limited to one sub job - classes are limited to none.

Because the -only- way to make a job unique in FFXIV (1.0 at least) is to make a class. And every class shares all of its skills. Its even worse of an issue then FFXI.

FFXI was not a logistical nightmare save for community fueled stigmas and SE not doing enough to dispel these stigmas. The reason it was not a logistical nightmare of sameyness was for the exact reason you listed. Jobs could only use one subjob.

But now you're saying that every class shares all it's skills in XIV. Really? I really loved using Life Surge on my Marauder and being completely invincible. Or remember that time the Pugilist in your party main healed with Cura and Curaga?

Yes, FFXIV 1.0 was not a logistical nightmare because skills and spells were limited based on class. You could only get really basic, non game breaking skills from other classes. There is no reason that would change in 2.0 with the addition of more classes.

Also, I think you really need to take a look at your use of the word "unique." You say that using abilities from other classes makes you "unique?" Well no, that just makes you more similar to the class you're borrowing the abilities from.

[Shougun]

FFXI was not a logistical nightmare save for community fueled stigmas and SE not doing enough to dispel these stigmas. The reason it was not a logistical nightmare of sameyness was for the exact reason you listed. Jobs could only use one subjob.

But now you're saying that every class shares all it's skills in XIV. Really? I really loved using Life Surge on my Marauder and being completely invincible. Or remember that time the Pugilist in your party main healed with Cura and Curaga?

Yes, FFXIV 1.0 was not a logistical nightmare because skills and spells were limited based on class. You could only get really basic, non game breaking skills from other classes. There is no reason that would change in 2.0 with the addition of more classes.

Also, I think you really need to take a look at your use of the word "unique." You say that a using abilities from other classes makes you "unique?" Well no, that just makes you more similar to the class you're borrowing the abilities from.

Perhaps you dont understand the context I mean for unique. The only way to make a job not a copy pasta of other classes and just feel like "5 abilities" is to make a whole dedicated class for it.

Otherwise the theme isnt in sync and isnt unique in other words it becomes a "copy pasta".

Classes do not block their good skills only the best ones - the more classes are around the harder it will be to balance as unexpected combinations will become OP, or others UP when you figure they shouldn't be. Too much blending - pretty much how FFXIV was in the very beginning but it will only happen later after many classes have been added because they want each job to feel appropriate. If you purposely are designing classes to only share their useless abilities then the class itself is useless and you should just move to the job system only.

[Zyph]

The only way to make a job not a copy pasta of other classes and just feel like "5 abilities" is to make a whole dedicated class for it.

That's what I'm saying. I think we're on the same page here.

Yes, there could arise a situation where a skill combination could become OP. But that's why SE has internal playtesters. Then there are people who's whole job is to analyze combinations of skills and determine if they should be balanced or not, or even completely revised. Yes they will make mistakes, and yes something is going to get nerfed in the live version, but that's an MMO for ya'.

A sane company would not let "too many jobs" flood their game unless they were dead sure they could balance them to the players' satisfaction. Let's hope SE remains sane.

Honestly, in order to cut down on this clutter of abilities, they could just get rid of classes and allow jobs to pick their two sub-classes and be able to switch their choices around at an aetheryte or something.

But yeah, basically, new jobs should be tied to new classes.

[Shougun]

That's what I'm saying. I think we're on the same page here.

Yes, there could arise a situation where a skill combination could become OP. But that's why SE has internal playtesters. Then there are people who's whole job is to analyze combinations of skills and determine if they should be balanced or not, or even completely revised. Yes they will make mistakes, and yes something is going to get nerfed in the live version, but that's an MMO for ya'.

A sane company would not let "too many jobs" flood their game unless they were dead sure they could balance them to the players' satisfaction. Let's hope SE remains sane.

Honestly, in order to cut down on this clutter of abilities, they could just get rid of classes and allow jobs to pick their two sub-classes and be able to switch their choices around at an aetheryte or something.

But yeah, basically, new jobs should be tied to new classes.

Ah I see, I cant say "I know there will be big issues" but I do definitely fear it with the current system - that classes will start to get in the way.

But I think it would be crazy not to worry.. just because its a system that once set in place cant really be taken back out.

I'm sure Yoshida has thought about this, a lot. But I want Yoshida to know at least some of its players are worried, so he can either make bigger decisions if wanted, think about it if he didn't, or just know he was thinking about the right things himself and he will surprise us at release with his retooled system (because we already know he has changed a lot of abilities).

Its not "my way or the highway" its just please dont go down "that way" (the all similar non-unique hodge podge where you are like "meh" DRK? PLD? whats the difference?).