The level link between Jobs and Classes

[Thebard]

Its a situation where you will just have to wait and see what they have done, what changes they have made.
This thread is redundant until we see those changes in beta because all you are doing is discussing the 1.0 scenario and thats not what we are getting in 2.0/ARR
Plus there are already threads on this topic.

[Wicka]

I agree that there is little point in assuming it will be the same in 2.0.

But I also agree with OP. Unless the current system is changed, it will be detrimental to the future of the game. I don't know what they have planned for 2.0, but I would not be opposed to a decision to do away with classes.

Games require satisfying feedback to be successful. One of the quintessential forms of feedback in rpgs is the ever-satisfying level-up. if the number of jobs doubles in the future (doesn't seem unreasonable), several problems arise if the system is not changed.

the jobs that share a base class also share the same attributes, weapons, basic weapon skills, traits, and level. I understand that they are changing the way attributes work in 2.0 so that may be a moot point. But if weapons, ws, and traits remain as they do now then the resulting jobs will be boringly similar.

Sharing levels brings up a whole other can of worms. My buddy and I are both looking forward to our favorite classes/jobs. Bluemage and puppetmaster, respectively. Lets assume they are both released at the same time, but Bluemage is released with a new class (lets say the light-blue-mage) and pup just branches off of a pre-existing class (lets say pug because i dig monk and have it at 50). We can't run low level content together because he is level 1 and I am 50. To solve this issue they would need to release a new class with each job, which makes classes redundant.

I understand that people enjoy the freeform nature of classes. Maybe a compromise could be made. If they kept the predefined cross-class options (2 options per job) and allowed us to pick a 3rd cross-class job, would that be acceptable? It could be a good way to continue using the job stones too. You level a job to 30 to obtain the job stone, which you can then equip to open up a 3rd job for cross-class skills. For example, BLM gets his 2 predefined cross-class options. And if he also has WHM at 30, he can equip that job stone and get access to WHM cross-class skills as well. I kinda just thought of this, and Im interested to hear from somebody who wants to keep classes around because the enjoy the freedom. Does that sound like an acceptable compromise?

Ultimately, changes are coming. And until we know how the new system will work, we shouldn't really worry. Very interested in thoughts my job stone idea, though.

[Wicka]

I agree that there is little point in assuming it will be the same in 2.0.

But I also agree with OP. Unless the current system is changed, it will be detrimental to the future of the game. I don't know what they have planned for 2.0, but I would not be opposed to a decision to do away with classes.

Games require satisfying feedback to be successful. One of the quintessential forms of feedback in rpgs is the ever-satisfying level-up. if the number of jobs doubles in the future (doesn't seem unreasonable), several problems arise if the system is not changed.

the jobs that share a base class also share the same attributes, weapons, basic weapon skills, traits, and level. I understand that they are changing the way attributes work in 2.0 so that may be a moot point. But if weapons, ws, and traits remain as they do now then the resulting jobs will be boringly similar.

Sharing levels brings up a whole other can of worms. My buddy and I are both looking forward to our favorite classes/jobs. Bluemage and puppetmaster, respectively. Lets assume they are both released at the same time, but Bluemage is released with a new class (lets say the light-blue-mage) and pup just branches off of a pre-existing class (lets say pug because i dig monk and have it at 50). We can't run low level content together because he is level 1 and I am 50. To solve this issue they would need to release a new class with each job, which makes classes redundant.

I understand that people enjoy the freeform nature of classes. Maybe a compromise could be made. If they kept the predefined cross-class options (2 options per job) and allowed us to pick a 3rd cross-class job, would that be acceptable? It could be a good way to continue using the job stones too. You level a job to 30 to obtain the job stone, which you can then equip to open up a 3rd job for cross-class skills. For example, BLM gets his 2 predefined cross-class options. And if he also has WHM at 30, he can equip that job stone and get access to WHM cross-class skills as well. I kinda just thought of this, and Im interested to hear from somebody who wants to keep classes around because the enjoy the freedom. Does that sound like an acceptable compromise?

Ultimately, changes are coming. And until we know how the new system will work, we shouldn't really worry. Very interested in thoughts my job stone idea, though.

[NoctisXZ]

First I just wanted to state that I had no knowledge of another thread like this. It must be buried somewhere though I'm sure.. so forgive me for the samey old threat posting. I hate that stuff as much as the next guy!

And while I know there a multitude of changes ahead of us once ARR launches I just can't sit around and wait and see. I have to be proactive about it and voice my opinion here since I haven't received an Alpha invite. As a matter of fact that's the primary reason I was hoping that I'd be accepted.. to give my feedback on that specific matter as soon as possible. I don't know everything that's going to change with the game and I don't expect to have all the details presented to me right now.. info needs to be staggered for many reasons. But on the other hand this is, in my eyes, a HUGE issue that could honestly make or break the game. It might not seem so as of this moment.. or even when the game has been out for a little while. But in the future I can only see problem after problem arising because of the current situation as some have already voiced here.

The armoury system itself needs a little work but it can be tweaked and perfected. I'm confident that it can get to a place where jobs aren't watered down because of there respective classes. My ONLY issue with it though is the level linking..

I've offered my solution. And I think it's grounded in reality and something that CAN be done in a relatively short time frame.. perhaps it would push the game back another month but I think a lot of us can wait if it means that the game will be the best that it can be.

Do away with the level linking. Once you unlock a job have it start out as whatever the required level of the main class/job that it's linked to is in order to unlock it, regardless of if that class/job is already capped. So if your Marauder is already level 50.. once you go to unlock Warrior it will start out at level 30 and level up INDIVIDUALLY of the main class it's linked to.

With that solution you wouldn't have to go back and add extra content or work around the game mechanics or lore so I can't see why it wouldn't be done.. hopefully it ALREADY is, but it doesn't hurt for me to voice my opinion on the matter.

I just can't see any other solution. Granted a few more classes do need to be added, like a thief type class, I just can't see the model of.. new class/new job working over the long run. You'd run into SO many issues with how classes work in general and it would create a giant balancing issue.