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  1. #11
    Player
    Abriael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    4,821
    Character
    Abriael Rosen
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Wynn View Post
    I don't know about anyone else but I don't see that. What I see is a group of people who see this presumed golden ticket into the alpha/beta as a status symbol and an entitlement that should have been handed to them without question.
    Being unable to see different points of view is a serious flaw in discussion. I know quite a lot of people that see testing games in their earlier stages as a responsibility and as an honor. Other simply have a very practical interest in getting their feedback in, because they're allowed to give their insight and contribute to the development of a game they are passionate about.

    I know that standpoint very well, as I am one of them.

    Hell, at the moment I'm beta testing a MMORPG that is downright crappy. Trudging through it is so unfun that many would consider it a waste of my time (and sometimes I do too). It makes FFXIV's 1.0 launch seem awesome.

    But I took the responsibility to help with it and I will, for good or for ill, at least when I feel well enough to subject myself to the most abject of torture.
    If my feedback will contribute to mitigate the crappyness, maybe it won't be wasted time.

    You being unable to see that kind of point of view, and second guessing people's motives without knowing them and such motives, trying to paint them in the worst possible way, doesn't make it less valid, or a bad thing.

    Of course there are also those that see things as you say, and just wanna try the game out before everyone else, but I don't know their percentage, nor you do, and it's not our prerogative to second guess other people's motives.

    If you offer to help your neighbor mow her lawn but she tells you that her nephew is coming to do it so that won't be necessary, do you tell her that's unfair? Do you complain to her that you really feel you care more about her lawn because you live right next to it every day so you should get to mow it? No! That is not the behavior of someone who wants to volunteer help. That is the behavior of a person who feels entitled to some possession, their precious.
    One of the worst blights on internet discussions are unfitting examples made to explain weak arguments.

    This example simply doesn't fit this case. There's no degree of passion or personal interest in mowing your neighbor's lawn. It's *his* lawn and it being good or bad looking doesn't influence your interests in any major way. People don't normally try to mow the lawn of their neighbors because they have a passion for lawns or a practical interest in it being as best as possible.

    A MMORPG is a quite different issue. MMORPG communities are very passionate (especially those that stuck with FFXIV up until now, through all the problems) and they do have a very direct interest in contributing to make the game as good as possible, because they want to play it themselves at release and they want it to be successful.

    So yeah, your comparison doesn't fit. If someone is passionate about a MMO and wants to contribute as much as possible with their direct feedback and insight, it's not unjustified for them to feel disappointed if this doesn't happen.

    It's also completely justified for that disappointment to worsen and become displeasure if the rules determining such possibility are changed without communication, especially if it's in a way that gives access to people that are quite evidently much less passionate about it, and that will statistically test the game less thoroughly and contribute to its development less.

    It's even more justified if requests of clarification about the issue are deleted instead of responded.

    Trying to paint them in the worst way possible makes you or SE no favors, as it does nothing else than exacerbating conflict with people that are already displeased, with reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gugnir View Post
    I agree, that blind faith can be bad but Yoshi and co, have earned my respect with their tireless efforts so I have faith in them they made the right choice for ARR. I'm not going to pretend I know what criteria they chose to use for inviting or qualifying people but there is a reason behind it.
    The problem is that we "know" what criteria they chose (or at least what criteria they were supposed to use). It was stated very clearly between the rules on the application form. Quite evidently that criteria was initially applied (because people with an inactive account couldn't apply at all), then things changed, whether it was intentional or not.

    When this kind of rules change, it's important to communicate it (even just because the ones that tried to apply initially but couldn't have as much right to apply then those that tried later, but if they aren't told, they can't retry). If the rule didn't change intentionally, but it's an honest mistake (which is the theory i most lean towards), it's important to own to that mistake and apologize.

    When dealing with a community and doing PR, communication is *always* the key. Deleting threads is the worst form of closure to communication, and serves no purpose other than making the developer look guilty of something and those that are already dissatisfied become even more so.

    I'm sure not disputing the right of Yoshi and co. To chose the criteria they most see fit, but the way SE went about communicating this was very, very lackluster, and people are fully justified in being dissatisfied about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonFury View Post
    honor my ass quit whining you will get in the game when you get in and thats that.. end of discussion
    If only discussions ended when someone decided so, right? I suggest to avoid using derogatory terminology just because you know you can't dispute a solid argument. Very few here are "whining". Many are expressing in a rather balanced way a rather rational concern on how SE went about this whole issue and on how they reacted to discontent. The fact that you disagree with it doesn't automatically turn it into "whining".

    Personally, I don't care much if i get into the alpha or not. If I do, good, if I don't, good anyway, my "to play" pile is so large that I don't see the end of it, and I have multiple other MMOs to test. What I do not like is being told one thing, and then seeing a completely different thing apply.

    It's a very serious issue in PR, and SE better be called on it now than when ARR is launched, as PR blunders like this can cause a lot more damage then. When the game will be under the spotlight.
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    Last edited by Abriael; 11-27-2012 at 05:18 PM.