So about jump.

[Arcell]

Oh FFS.. You can not be that dense. Can you?

They were complaining about the idea of multiple people being able to jump up and down repeatedly on a *tent* made of some sort of *fabric*.

Reading comprehension. It works if you use it.

NinjaPanda's post is a stellar example of why so many discussions/debates on these forums (and others) go nowhere. People either possess zero ability to comprehend what they're reading. Or, they deliberately cherry-pick specific parts of a post, completely ignore the context they were presented in, and then construct absurd strawman arguments out of them to tear down.

Folks, if you can't honestly address someone's actual comments accurately, thoroughly and in their proper context, without pulling such petty, dishonest BS, don't even bother responding.

Okay so the issue isn't so much with jump as it is with all objects not reacting as their real world counterparts would in relation to jumping. I think that's a bit far beyond the scope of this game.

[Preypacer]

Okay so the issue isn't so much with jump as it is with all objects not reacting as their real world counterparts would in relation to jumping. I think that's a bit far beyond the scope of this game.

... seriously?

You're asserting that it's beyond SE's means to determine where people can and can't jump, in a virtual 3D environment entirely of their own design and construction?

Two words: Collision Mesh. An invisible, convex mesh that is positioned around or above another object that prevents objects from passing through them. They're used all over the place in games. They're pretty much a mandatory part of 3D modeling for real-time environments. Yes, even in FF games.

Now... Take a guess how SE could stop someone from jumping up on top of a small tent if they didn't want them to?

Hint: It has nothing to do with simulating real world physics, or anything "beyond the scope of the game".

[Arcell]

... seriously?

You're asserting that it's beyond SE's means to determine where people can and can't jump, in a virtual 3D environment entirely of their own design and construction?

Two words: Collision Mesh. An invisible, convex mesh that is positioned around or above another object that prevents objects from passing through them. They're used all over the place in games. They're pretty much a mandatory part of 3D modeling for real-time environments. Yes, even in FF games.

Now... Take a guess how SE could stop someone from jumping up on top of a small tent if they didn't want them to?

So you would trade the ability to jump on top of objects you believably could reach for the lack of ability to jump on objects that believably wouldn't support you?

[Preypacer]

So you would trade the ability to jump on top of objects you believably could reach for the lack of ability to jump on objects that believably wouldn't support you?

Yes, I would.

You know.. that whole "realism" thing that people around here selectively agree with when it suits them, but completely reject when it doesn't...?

[Arcell]

Yes, I would.

You know.. that whole "realism" thing that people selectively agree with when it suits them...

I'm not going to discuss realism. I'm strictly talking about believability which is an entirely different issue. That would be, things you could believably do in the game world. Either way, something is occurring that is beyond believability.

Either some invisible force is keeping me from jumping on that tent or some invisible force is holding it up. Both scenarios are equally unbelievable to me so I'd prefer the one that doesn't limit where I can jump.

[Preypacer]

I'm not going to discuss realism. I'm strictly talking about believability which is an entirely different issue. That would be, things you could believably do in the game world. Either way, something is occurring that is beyond believability.

Either some invisible force is keeping me from jumping on that tent or some invisible force is holding it up. Both scenarios are equally unbelievable to me so I'd prefer the one that doesn't limit where I can jump.

Yes, that much was clear from the moment you decided to argue it.

First of all, believability and realism fall within the same category... they both share roots in credulity. They go hand-in-hand. If something is "believable", it's because it would be "realistic" for it to happen. If something is "unrealistic", people won't "believe" it. People don't really believe a magician is making an elephant disappear, because it's not very realistic for that to happen. See where I'm going with this? Point is, whatever semantic nonsense you're attempting to pull here... it's not working.

But again.. as I said before, "realism" and "believability" for that matter, are selectively supported around here. So I fully expect the spin, self-contradicting logic, and selective reasoning to continue.

Boy are some of you folks gonna be pissed the first time you try jumping off a moderately high cliff and find you can't because Yoshi-P has decided it wouldn't be possible (which he has stated) to jump beyond a certain height or from certain locations.

I can't wait to see the selective arguments for "realism" popping up over that. I'm going to remind them that it's not "believable" that people would jump from a height that would likely injure them in a realistic situation. And, of course, in that case, "realism" will - again - be shunned as people say "well, it's a fantasy game, it doesn't have to be realistic! Just don't have us take damage!"

Some people around here are so predictably selective in their reasoning, it's like reading a script.

[Arcell]

Yes, that much was clear from the moment you decided to argue it.

First of all, believability and realism fall within the same category... they both share roots in credulity. They go hand-in-hand. If something is "believable", it's because it would be "realistic" for it to happen. If something is "unrealistic", people won't "believe" it. People don't really believe a magician is making an elephant disappear, because it's not very realistic for that to happen. See where I'm going with this? Point is, whatever semantic nonsense you're attempting to pull here... it's not working.

But again.. as I said before, "realism" and "believability" for that matter, are selectively supported around here. So I fully expect the spin, self-contradicting logic, and selective reasoning to continue.

Boy are some of you folks gonna be pissed the first time you try jumping off a moderately high cliff and find you can't because Yoshi-P has decided it wouldn't be possible (which he has stated) to jump beyond a certain height or from certain locations.

I can't wait to see the selective arguments for "realism" popping up over that. I'm going to remind them that it's not "believable" that people would jump from a height that would likely injure them in a realistic situation. And, of course, in that case, "realism" will - again - be shunned as people say "well, it's a fantasy game, it doesn't have to be realistic! Just don't have us take damage!"

Some people around here are so predictably selective in their reasoning, it's like reading a script.

Honestly? I won't make a thread on here about it lol. Unbelievable invisible forces abound, but if I had to pick one I'd pick the less restrictive of the two. That's pretty much all I'm getting at. Both situations are equally unbelievable.

[Drazzan]

Yes, that much was clear from the moment you decided to argue it.

First of all, believability and realism fall within the same category... they both share roots in credulity. They go hand-in-hand. If something is "believable", it's because it would be "realistic" for it to happen. If something is "unrealistic", people won't "believe" it. People don't really believe a magician is making an elephant disappear, because it's not very realistic for that to happen. See where I'm going with this? Point is, whatever semantic nonsense you're attempting to pull here... it's not working.

But again.. as I said before, "realism" and "believability" for that matter, are selectively supported around here. So I fully expect the spin, self-contradicting logic, and selective reasoning to continue.

Boy are some of you folks gonna be pissed the first time you try jumping off a moderately high cliff and find you can't because Yoshi-P has decided it wouldn't be possible (which he has stated) to jump beyond a certain height or from certain locations.

I can't wait to see the selective arguments for "realism" popping up over that. I'm going to remind them that it's not "believable" that people would jump from a height that would likely injure them in a realistic situation. And, of course, in that case, "realism" will - again - be shunned as people say "well, it's a fantasy game, it doesn't have to be realistic! Just don't have us take damage!"

Some people around here are so predictably selective in their reasoning, it's like reading a script.

Somebody with a brain, willing to put across a proper argument on these forums is a rare sight. Keep fighting the good fight, I gave up that fight long ago. Sadly, in this respect, the minority are the ones most often heard, I think many people just keep quiet due to the massive amount of stupidity that can reside around here. It's a shame really. I'm sure we'd have some great ideas if we all put our heads together.

[Kallera]

Yes, I would.

You know.. that whole "realism" thing that people around here selectively agree with when it suits them, but completely reject when it doesn't...?

Jumping on tents is as real as invisible walls, or not jumping off a cliff.

Invisible walls are by far more annoying, they are the antithesis of fun. There's far more fun jumping on tents.

[Arcell]

Jumping on tents is as real as invisible walls, or not jumping off a cliff.

Invisible walls are by far more annoying, they are the antithesis of fun. There's far more fun jumping on tents.

Exactly. And honestly things you can jump on supporting you is a far more consistent. Keeping it the way it is, the game will consistently, 100% of the time allow things you can jump on to support your character. In changing it, the developers have to decide which things can or cannot support your character and there may be inconsistencies.

Also if anyone actually does want to play the "that can't support your weight" card, you're trying to base that on what works in our world (see: realism) which doesn't quite work. We don't know what Eorzean cloths are capable of doing or how their process of creation alters their properties. Not to mention as NinjaPanda mentioned, magic. It can strengthen our defenses so how far-fetched is it that it could strengthen the fabric, thus increasing it's weight tolerance? I mean even the mighty Ifrit's claws could not rend our fabric armors! But I digress as this point is becoming increasingly silly