Time Mage Awareness

[Altena]

So... because not everyone voted, RDM's numbers were hugely off? Are you that sure that everyone who didn't vote was a RDM zealot?

I personally wouldn't like RDM in XIV. A jack of all trades has no place in an MMO.

Those that would pick RDM possibly tied themselves up in other jobs, start another poll leaving RDM and "time mage" as the only 2 options, then I will care for the results..

I was talking about this with a friend on Skype, he is pro-time mage so it started up an amusing discussion, but the major points I made were:

- The concept lacks utility in XIV's current form. ( Stop would be overpowered on boss fights - or wouldn't land on anything worth stopping, mute/silence I would imagine is more of an Arcanist ability - eg. Siren's pact, float - what... makes you immune to Quake which isn't even in the game yet? etc~ I could go on.)

- Spells that are considered "time/space" based spells can be easily covered across the 3 current casting jobs in future level caps very easily, without making one class overpowered. (eg. Bind, Gravity etc)

- In a party setup, due to current mechanics, the only thing a time mage would be doing is standing in the corner spamming Haste or Regen on people. (i.e. they become a haste bot). There is very little flexibility / movement with the job.

- Some spells that are space/time based spells are iconic WHM and BLM spells in FF's that don't contain a specific time mage (which is the majority of them) and would rather see those respective jobs get them in the distant future (comet/meteor, reflect).

tldr; despite my trolling posts earlier, time mage doesn't have much utility, game mechanics would force them to be a haste bot, and some spells that would fall under the "space/time" category are iconic WHM/BLM spells.

[Ingolf]

Those that would pick RDM possibly tied themselves up in other jobs, start another poll leaving RDM and "time mage" as the only 2 options, then I will care for the results..

I was talking about this with a friend on Skype, he is pro-time mage so it started up an amusing discussion, but the major points I made were:

- The concept lacks utility in XIV's current form. ( Stop would be overpowered on boss fights - or wouldn't land on anything worth stopping, mute/silence I would imagine is more of an Arcanist ability - eg. Siren's pact, float - what... makes you immune to Quake which isn't even in the game yet? etc~ I could go on.)

We don't know enough about ARR to make that call. If something was OP, they could change the functionality. Make Mute slow spell casting etc.

- Spells that are considered "time/space" based spells can be easily covered across the 3 current casting jobs in future level caps very easily, without making one class overpowered.

You could say that about any magic. Through this logic, RDM is unnecessary because it only uses Black and White magic

- In a party setup, due to current mechanics, the only thing a time mage would be doing is standing in the corner spamming Haste or Regen on people. (i.e. they become a haste bot). There is very little flexibility / movement with the job.

We're past current. Once ARR is released, then you can make calls like that. If it does turn out to be the case, it will have to be tweaked, like BRD was tweaked.

The flexibility is limited to the devs competency.

- Some spells that are space/time based spells are iconic WHM and BLM spells and would rather see those respective jobs get them in the distant future (comet/meteor, reflect).

Through this logic we might as well not add any new mage jobs.

[AmyNeudaiz]

We don't know enough about ARR to make that call. If something was OP, they could change the functionality. Make Mute slow spell casting etc.

You could say that about any magic. Through this logic, RDM is unnecessary because it only uses Black and White magic

We're past current. Once ARR is released, then you can make calls like that. If it does turn out to be the case, it will have to be tweaked, like BRD was tweaked.

The flexibility is limited to the devs competency.

Through this logic we might as well not add any new mage jobs.

/Highfive for breaking down arguments in a similar fashion.

[Altena]

<insert big obnoxious picture that is completely irrelevant here>

We don't know enough about ARR to make that call. If something was OP, they could change the functionality. Make Mute slow spell casting etc.

If you kindly re-read what you were responding to, I stated that it lacks utility in the game's current form, in which is the only knowledge we can truly look at when making this kind of judgement. Slow spell casting is an effect of the spell Slow.... (as an example) So now we are breaking up 1 spell to make 2, i.e. creating ineffectiveness / gimping something to make something else with a similar effect? I don't understand that logic.

We're past current. Once ARR is released, then you can make calls like that. If it does turn out to be the case, it will have to be tweaked, like BRD was tweaked.

I am basing my calls on the knowledge that we have available to us now, and you cannot be beyond current, because current is another word for "present" meaning "right now". Therefore the basis of my calls are the based on the information that we have right now.

The flexibility is limited to the devs competency.

Flexibility is limited to the community's execution of what is given to us. Giving a class an ability that may be useful in some circumstance, does not define the flexibility that the job has, it is how the player/community choose to use said ability.

Through this logic we might as well not add any new mage jobs.

To be honest, we don't really need any in my opinion. We already have 3 confirmed spell casters. I would rather see more support/utility roles pop up. Jobs such as NIN THF COR (throwing XI names out there because they are commonly known), however based on the information we have - we have 1 "supportive" job. (BRD). I would like to see more individual jobs that are completely different (like dual wielders, pets etc).

[AmyNeudaiz]

- The concept lacks utility in XIV's current form. ( Stop would be overpowered on boss fights - or wouldn't land on anything worth stopping, mute/silence I would imagine is more of an Arcanist ability - eg. Siren's pact, float - what... makes you immune to Quake which isn't even in the game yet? etc~ I could go on.)

Exactly, current form. Current form tells us nothing of FFXIV ARR. Also, we are getting Titan~, you know that don't you?

- Spells that are considered "time/space" based spells can be easily covered across the 3 current casting jobs in future level caps very easily, without making one class overpowered.

Why not increase diversity and add Time Mage?

- In a party setup, due to current mechanics, the only thing a time mage would be doing is standing in the corner spamming Haste or Regen on people. (i.e. they become a haste bot). There is very little flexibility / movement with the job.

Only if they are dumb enough to not make it flexible... You realize haste isn't the only thing you can put on Time Mage, right?

- Some spells that are space/time based spells are iconic WHM and BLM spells in FF's that don't contain a specific time mage (which is the majority of them) and would rather see those respective jobs get them in the distant future (comet/meteor, reflect).

Ok, let's throw away Time Mage because some FF games had time related spells on other classes. You know what? Let's get rid of everything that's not FF1 while we're at it. Gotta stick to them roots.

tldr; despite my trolling posts earlier, time mage doesn't have much utility, game mechanics would force them to be a haste bot, and some spells that would fall under the "space/time" category are iconic WHM/BLM spells.

You don't even know what Yoshi-P and the dev team would do with Time Mage. Why discredit the whole job when plenty of people want it, just because you can't see it being useful?

[Altena]

Exactly, current form.

tldr; started off the same as the previous. I stopped caring from that point.

[AmyNeudaiz]

tldr; started off the same as the previous. I stopped caring from that point.

They were pretty close together, nonetheless your opinion is flawed from the get go. "They shouldn't add Time Mage because it wouldn't work in 1.0" - what?

Ingolf seems to have this thread under control so I'll be taking my leave as to not double up on posts of the same opinion.
/flies away on a unicorn