Job Individuality/Pride/Dedication

[Crevox]

I only read OP's post.

I feel what you're saying. I like the armory system. A couple of things that would (partially) solve this problem:
- Make it harder / more time consuming to level a class/job.
- Make every class/job have a more in-depth gameplay that requires practice
- Make every class/job equally useful.
- Make artifact armor harder to get.

Pretty much, and make it so you can't get armor/weapons for a class you're not playing.

Restricting our ability to play whatever jobs we feel like; I vote NO.

I never said that. I just want to restrict the ability to switch on-the-fly, perhaps by requiring you to go to a specific location to change classes. Yes, it will change things, because people are unwilling to accept party deviations due to how easy it is to change classes. It's a core game issue that has many negative effects on the community and the health of the game (the former is just one example).

You = someone who didn't read the whole thread.

If you want to be stuck in a specific role, go play wow. I like switching jobs on the fly thank you very much.

WoW is not like that at all. In fact, in WoW, it's even easier to play "multiple roles" due to the ability to swap your talents any time anywhere. Also, again, I never said we should remove the ability to change jobs/classes, just a restriction; however, that is only a small facet of the information this thread concerns.

Some people like playing a lot of classes; some people don't. I personally want to focus on one, I should not be shunned or penalized for that difference of playstyle (which may or may not be the same as the global playerbase's playstyle).

Every single content at 1.0 was doable with any job setup, you see the issue here is most players are LAZY, refuckinemphasize on lazy, if you want to do strat your way, then go make your own strat, go setup the party and proof to people it works and people will starts using it.

BUT no, people would rather on freakin whine on forum instead of refining their own strat, they would rather people carry their ass. So, they keep using the strategy that apparently they hates. Well, guess what? freaking suck it up if you are lazy.

This is MMO, there is never true balance, some job will shines at certain instances, some at others. Get this in your head deeply, this is the price you have to pay for uniqueness. What devs can do is make them all viable in the fights and that is what they already did.

Ifrit? magic and melee burnable
Moogle? magic and melee burnable
Garuda? you need both magic and melee to win
25m Speedrun instaces? you can win with any combination of battle classes


This issue isn't going away in a game where holy trinities exist, so suck it up.

The sad thing about this post is it has very little to do with my OP. It's like you copy pasted this from another subject because you liked the post; it's irrelevant. Are you just saying it's the communities fault with that wall of text or what? Because, I've already covered that argument.

What's funnier is this has absolutely nothing to do with the holy trinity. I have no idea why you even brought that up.

[Arcell]

I never said that. I just want to restrict the ability to switch on-the-fly, perhaps by requiring you to go to a specific location to change classes. Yes, it will change things, because people are unwilling to accept party deviations due to how easy it is to change classes. It's a core game issue that has many negative effects on the community and the health of the game (the former is just one example).

And that would change exactly nothing, except time spent running back to change. It would go from changing when you get to the dungeon to people telling you what to come on beforehand and if you don't come on that then the whole party has to wait while you go back and change. It also means if you want to switch things up and try new strategies, most of the party has to run back and switch which takes up a lot of time.

You said yourself that you pretty much just play WHM, in response to my comments about AF not being good enough. I don't think you understand how hard it is for classes like DRG and MNK. Those two specifically upgrade far above AF, aren't suited to all content and are very often asked to switch out. Restricting when we can switch classes doesn't change that, it just means it'll take more time. People aren't going to start taking non-optimal classes just because it's harder to switch.

[Meta]

And that would change exactly nothing, except time spent running back to change. It would go from changing when you get to the dungeon to people telling you what to come on beforehand and if you don't come on that then the whole party has to wait while you go back and change. It also means if you want to switch things up and try new strategies, most of the party has to run back and switch which takes up a lot of time.

...Restricting when we can switch classes doesn't change that, it just means it'll take more time. People aren't going to start taking non-optimal classes just because it's harder to switch.

This wins the thread. The same people who will ask you to switch on the spot will be asking you to leave and come back as the job or GTFO. Without on-the-fly switching, you're just making everyone afk for another 5-15 minutes and delay whatever it is that you need to do. It's an utterly pointless waste of time.

Not only that, having switching on the fly can actually help you in your case where you only can/want to play as one job; someone else can switch to accommodate your inability to play the desired role.

I'm not sure why anyone would want to remove the most convenient and defining feature of FFXIV, especially with gear sets on the horizon. I'd resub in an instant SE added these features to FFXI.

[Shurrikhan]

*Please don't take my responses as directly argumentative to the quoted section. They merely follow them.*

The lesson here is not "Change the game to suit me" the lesson here is "Find people with my goals/desires" to play with.

Your entire post is completely sensible, but I would like to point out a couple things. For starters, not all goals/desires are going to be playable in a game. Sometimes, it's not a viable option, period. This, however, has little to do with the mechanics already in the game. Sure, you can't tank with a Dragoon, but rarely does anyone ask for that. It's precisely because what they're looking for isn't already in the game that it's often hard to describe, and the points they suggest seem arbitrary or often unreasonable.

That's not to say that this inability is always the case, or that a set portion will be locked off -- a good game design can make more of those possible, even without reducing the enjoyment of what's in place already. But as such the changes needed to reach that greater accessibility probably won't come from adjustments within the existent game mechanics -- such as the restrictions given in example by the OP.

Showing off your Dragoon with it's gear and then having someone immediately change to the same gear, what is the problem? Are you upset someone else that has other jobs put in the same effort for their dragoon, while also juggling other things? Should they not take pride in their stuff the same as you. If your Dragoons are identical, the situation goes one of two ways. Either your gear is easy to obtain, in which case you have a misplaced sense of pride. Or, You both worked hard on your Dragoon, and both should show pride. Dedication in one thing does not me dedication from other things.

Totally true. But for many people, comparative advantage or comparative equity isn't the problem. The problem is more likely that the entire grand scale of the job can be had in approximately two hours with enough anima and a good party. Or, regardless of the time, the fact that the player never once made a unique decision in keeping with a "dragoon" or pursuing that role. You merely took a little extra time while leveling a strand that levels almost identically to every other strand.

It leaves a raid team basically estimated by how many good knives they can bring to a gun fight. They all cap out at about the same places, which should be fine in the name of balance, but to many none of those caps feel satisfyingly deep.

I don't think it's unreasonable to feel like jobs should be more than just a collection of tools. I'd personally rather have the collection of tools be turned into a more unique job or few jobs that both better define the player, and the player more choice-fully defines for himself.

And again, if changes were to be made to aid this, it probably wouldn't come from any 'adjustments' to the armory or job systems. It'd have to start further back.