Why do we have to dwell on meaningless issues?

[Karazaki]

Can we please stop now?

It feels like 8/10 topics degenerate into arguments over semantics or a difference of opinions. I'd like to discuss topics with other players like 1.0 or ARR, but it's not worth trying because it's already strayed from the subject or a flame war by page 5 of most topics (slight exaggeration). You can discuss or you can argue, but you can't do both.

Relevant to this topic, I too find that there are a lot of pointless[1] topics, but that's only my opinion and it doesn't make me right or wrong. I think part of the reason the forums are that way now is because Yoshi-P openly thanked players for their opinions and criticism and stated that it was helpful for development (correct me if I got my facts wrong). This probably opened the door and invited everyone to /shout their opinions, entitlements, petitions etc.



[1] My definition of pointless includes topics that have already been discussed, topics we know the answer to already (via official statement), and death march topics like petitions that will never succeed or begging the devs for something they'll never do.

EDIT: It's sad that I have to specify this but I'm not trying to offend anyone. So if someone takes offense to my comment(s), don't let it lead to a rage-fueled reply.

[Azurus]

so pretty much the last couple producer letters and this last live letter would be pointless, as they answered things would largely already knew lol. i mean it had a few good points but meh haha

[NinjaPanda]

You say I'm belittling his opinion while defending his opinion that belittles the opinions of others after saying my post was hypocritical... Wow, just wow.

Let me point out my argument in a simpler manner so it's more clear.

Those threads have actual context behind them as they directly pertain to FFXIV, if he (or you for that matter) wanted to voice that those threads are not important then he should of posted in those threads his opinion as he has a right to. But this thread has nothing to do with FFXIV. This thread is a thread about threads. What happens to threads about threads? They get locked because they offer no feedback to the game.

Then this is a thread inside a thread, inside another thread.

I'm in no way defending his views of what he said. I'm defending that he also has the right to state his mind. If you were to read my words of when I posted, it was that these politics don't do anything to the core game play and don't belong in a video game. Read up dearie.

[Karazaki]

so pretty much the last couple producer letters and this last live letter would be pointless, as they answered things would largely already knew lol. i mean it had a few good points but meh haha

Yeah some of them just remind us of what we know already, but I'm glad we still get updates and news.

EDIT: I know there are limits on what they are and aren't allowed to reveal (even if Yoshida and Wada tend to use limit break )

[Laiferr]

...with the whole picture of the hyur in coliseum thing, and other instances....
but i digress, maybe instead of attacking an entire forums reading comprehension you should work on your ability to confidently and clearly express ideas. I know I am not the only one who noticed that your tone and "what you were trying to get across" seemed to "evolve" as the thread went on.

I didn't post any pictures in the thread. You clearly can't empathize with what I was talking about, and you know, that's fine; some people aren't going to. But just to say 'it's going too far with politics and it makes the game less enjoyable' - that is just your opinion. For me it would make the game more enjoyable if there was equality (I'm not sure how equality would make the game less enjoyable, but I can accept for some, they like seeing the imbalance). I am allowed to have mine and you are allowed to have yours. That doesn't mean either of us should be told to not post them. I don't go into threads about subjects I disagree with and start telling the OP they should have never posted, or making threads about how people should stop posting about opinions on developer decisions because I disagree with them. I'm also not denying the examples I gave were small ones. I said in the thread several times it's not a huge deal, it's more just food for thought on where things might go. I don't particularly want to go more in-depth with my own experiences.

You are right, what I said did evolve as I was responding to people and taking in other ideas. The core of the point and what most people seemed to be replying to and misunderstanding was the OP. I really don't mind dissenting opinions when they're explained and sensible, but for example, a three page discussion on breast size and people attacking me for ... apparently... not liking breast size option? I've been one of the people who wanted this option from the start, only mentioning it once in the thread with positivity... yes I think we have a problem with reading comprehension :/ I don't mind if people want to give constructive criticism on what was confusing about the post. I did edit in a disclaimer, if that helps, since I don't know if it was just too long for people to read it properly. I am happy to edit the wording or add summaries. Sorry if I came across rude I was honestly getting tired of being personally attacked/sworn at/insulted for opinions I don't have.

[CSLionheart]

I think if we're going to talk about problems with this forum, we might want to address the issue of reading comprehension. Take yourself, for example, CSLionheart. You berate my thread, going on to talk about swimsuits, phrasing it in such a way as if I denoted I had an issue with them. That's quite unusual, considering the third paragraph of my opening post talks about swimsuits and why I was OK with them. It's quite strange people would take the time to scorn a thread, yet seemingly didn't comprehend the most basic of its content. Perhaps they only read the title?

So we now have another thread which, after ten pages, people are still lambasting my thread as hating on sexy gear. It's really strange, since if you actually take the time to read the thread, I don't ever say that I feel there should be no sexy gear. If you actually read the thread you'll notice I joke about subligars, say I like the breast size option and don't mind the coliseum gear. It's quite weird how people read things which aren't there!

Hey Laiferr, thanks for taking the time to reply. I admit I made this topic sound a little bit more targeted than I had originally intended. But I want to be clear that despite any differences of opinion there are no hard feelings So there's really no need to get defensive. That being said, there are a few things I'd like to clarify.

First, I realize that it's not the sexy gear itself you're concerned with. It's the inconsistency between the male and female versions of said gear. That much, I understand, and I think you're actually making a valid point. However, you seem to have overlooked the fact that I did indeed touch upon this fact in my post. Allow me to refresh your memory:

Furthermore, how can you possibly blame the development team? Female swimsuits, and clothing in general tend to be more revealing than the male equivalent. This has nothing to do with the FFXIV dev team, this is what society has chosen to be the "ideal image" for a woman. If you don't like it, it's not this game you have a problem with, it's the real world.

As you can see, I wasn't accusing you of being against revealing gear. What I do have a problem with is your accusations of the development team, when the real problem is not them or this game, but society itself. Unfortunately, the media portrays women wearing rather revealing clothing, which defines our perception of attractive. Call me a white knight or whatever you want, but I don't think the dev team, which has put an incredible amount of hard work into this game for the sake of the players, deserves to be accused of something as ludicrous as gender inequality. I cite numerous examples from your post (see, I did read it!):

It seems to me the dev team are very much encouraging the objectification of females

Then to go as far as to say some people on the dev team have certain 'inclinations' as if it's a funny joke.

That's because it WAS a joke...is it really so bad for someone to admit they're attracted to the female body, jokingly at that.

Going through your post once again though, I find that last question of yours to be completely off-base and ridiculous, in spite of whatever sarcasm was intended:

This is also a complete aside; does anyone know if there are any females on the development team, or even the entire FFXIV team? Just curious.

Unfortunately I don't have an actual source for this at the moment, but you do realize that the main artist in charge of gear design is female, right? Anyway, I hope this clarifies things for you a little bit. I'm not sure if you'll even read this, let alone reply, but I figured it was worth a shot.

[Quesse]

This thread is great.

Its like a place where we can take the two most meaningless topics on the board and merge them into one super-mega meaningless topic.

[Karazaki]

This thread is great.

Its like a place where we can take the two most meaningless topics on the board and merge them into one super-mega meaningless topic.

Just like Bahamut, this thread cannot be sealed by the twelve.

[Callence]

Ok folks can we all just get a beer and some popcorn now?

[Laiferr]

...But I want to be clear that despite any differences of opinion there are no hard feelings So there's really no need to get defensive...
...What I do have a problem with is your accusations of the development team, when the real problem is not them or this game, but society itself. Unfortunately, the media portrays women wearing rather revealing clothing, which defines our perception of attractive...
...That's because it WAS a joke...is it really so bad for someone to admit they're attracted to the female body, jokingly at that...
...I find that last question of yours to be completely off-base and ridiculous, in spite of whatever sarcasm was intended:
Unfortunately I don't have an actual source for this at the moment, but you do realize that the main artist in charge of gear design is female, right? Anyway, I hope this clarifies things for you a little bit. I'm not sure if you'll even read this, let alone reply, but I figured it was worth a shot.

Spoilering my reply to you as don't want to go off on a tangent too much

Sorry for getting a bit snippy, as I said above I was getting a bit frustrated. To be honest the reading comprehension part was more aimed at other people, too, since some of the replies are just amazingly making up opinions for me.

My counter-point would be that Square Enix are a part of society. They are a form of media. They set an example, albeit within a 'fantasy' game and within the gaming industry. They are our 'leaders'. The joke point, I think that boils down to every debate on mildly offensive jokes ever... For example some people get offended by racist jokes, jokes about gay people, jokes about the elderly, etc. Some people don't, and that's fine, but for me seeing these people I look up to saying such things, it wasn't such a funny thing for me. If it was any old person or player I wouldn't really mind. I'm glad for the reassurance that it was more a misguided attempt at being friendly, of sorts.

My last question was not sarcastic, it was something I had been wondering for a while and didn't want to put such a small question in a seperate thread. No, I didn't know the gear designer is female! If I'm right I was under the impression there is multiple gear designers? And then the guy from FFXII does characters too? Or does he just do promo art...? It would be quite nice to know the whole structure of who does what. Might be a good question for a future Q&A, who works on what.

Erm, maybe we can turn this thread into something positive...? What are peoples favourite kinds of posts? What would you like to see more of? Personally I'd like to see some more art posts, or maybe art challenge posts! I have some cool ideas for fun passing the time posts, but I've been made aware there's a lot of trolling/vitriol here, so it was a genuine question about any other possible forums/communities, preferably ones that have moderators (is there a list somewhere??)