Community name "Gathering Fatigue"

[Truvy]

You can see my Gathering (fishing) fatigue testing here:
http://www.disciplesoftheland.com/fo...?g=posts&t=252

Basically I can show that there is:

* A set number of sucessful gathering actions allowed before you hit the fatigue (Fatigue is not 100% fail, but its really high).
* That the passage of time since your last sucess increases the number of available sucesses (your POOL if you will).
* That 12 hours _appears_ to be the amount of time (from last sucess) for your POOL to reach its CAP.

As far as the exact numbers, my results are in the post listed...but it seemed to be more math than i wanted to do to get the exact formulas. All i need to know is that when i cap out and hit fatigue, i've got 12 hours before I best go back out and do it again. I agree, this is inconvienant as a supplier of fishys...but the alternative is countless bots creating a steady flow of resources making it pointless to do it yourself/make any gil off it (despite the uleslessness of gil >.>) etc.

[Girlie]

Thanks, Truvy! That's very helpful.

[Truvy]

It is also useful to note the following as well:

* The QUANTITY or QUALITY of your materials gathered during your successes does NOT matter towards reaching fatigue.

In Example:
PLAYER A goes out and fished for 150 sucessful catches before reaching fatigue. Each and every one of the catches got them only 1 fish at a time at normal quality. (Call this the Minimum possible)

PLAYER B goes out and fished for 150 sucessful catches before reaching fatigue. Each and every one of the catches got them 3x <fish name> at +3 quality. (Call this the Maximun possible)

As you can see, there is a range from the above example of 150 - 450 actual resources, but the fatigue level is the same. Therefore when gathering with the intention of maximizing your resources for your allowed CAPPED POOL of sucesses, one should not only focus on gear that improves Perception (increases Quality of resources) but have abilities equiped that also improve the quality as well.

As far as catching/harvesting multiple items from a single attempt, I'm really not sure what affects this (Stats, gear stats, rank, etc...likely a combo of all of it).

[Vesper]

This really does need to be adjusted. At the very least this should NOT be persisting across different DoL jobs. Its completely ridiculous that if I fish for awhile then hit normal surplus that if I swap to botany I can fail 90% of my hits. Thats penalizing NORMAL ranking even beyond trying to stop RMT, which it does not do.

If you level more than one DoL this can basically halt your actual sp gain. If your constantly breaking anything you hit because you hit this hidden system on another class it not only affects your gathering totals, but it also kills your sp as you will be getting half sp due to instant breaks.

Completely unacceptable.

[tragic]

@Vesper -- It is not persistent across all DoLs. I have gone from zero fatigue to fatigue on botany and then on mining back to back. Both around 140ish successful gathers.

[Wynn]

I agree, it is not persistent across DoL classes. However, I also agree that this does not do anything to hinder RMT. RMT organizations have countless characters with which to harvest with once one hits fatigue. All this really does is hinder real players who have chosen a DoL as their primary class.

[tragic]

@Wynn exactly! In fact I am ranking up my mules DoL classes now because of gather fatigue. Being at the correct depth and using skills to increase the odds of getting the items you want only does so much. I find it concerning I am reduced to having multiple characters with DoL classes to farm the items I need to support my crafts.

[Eruantien]

Thanks Truvy, that is the conclusion I came to as well without hard evidence, I am not that patient, but it is not needed, theres 1 thing to stop sp down to 80% of original with the bonus sp system, but gatherers have 2 systems, and this is by far the harshest, doint get items and half sp and no xp.

[Hotohori]

I'm just going to copy what I said in another Gathering Fatigue topic.

Gathering Fatigue is to control a players limit to how much resources are allowed to be obtained over a certain period of time. The system of HELM related activities in FFXI were limited by a world resource limitation. Meaning the game would generate only so much materials that can be gathered over time. Sounds great on paper but what happened is RMT took a monopoly over such activities through massive boting with multiple accounts. (Chocobo Digging bots, Logging bots, Fishing bots, Mining bots, Gardening Bots) With automated characters collecting materials out of the system basically at the rate of which they spawned into the game. Actual players could not yield much or much of value for a long period of time due to RMT control in these fields. If you notice in 14, a single player must now move from place to place to continue gathering instead of standing at one location for points to spawn/target/harvest. In general with the current system of gathering fatigue there is no way for one player or players to have a control on the gathering market but still limits resource outputs in a timely fashion to prevent oversupply. Note: Fishing is being botted because the same limitations of necessary movement is lacking due to the fact of an incomplete system. If you have ever tried to use Dowse IV or Dowse V, you will realize there are no schools of fish grade 4 or higher implemented into the game still. I would like to be able to gather materials on my own and not be effected by however many other gatherers are over collecting in the game.

So without fatigue of individual players or the limiting world resource totals, the supply end of the game would be simply out of control. I do not see nearly as many RMT mining/logging bots in 14 due to the movement requirements. Most RMT harvest with combat bots at low level monster and supply shards.

[Peregrine]

I'm afraid that if people skirt gathering fatigue the devs will have no choice but to crack down on the material yields. This system was designed so that people would not be suppressed in it, but its creating overprodution problems already. Everyone can tell you the top crafters. No one can tell you the top gatherers because it doesn't matter. Crafters have gatherers under their thumb because they know they can get materials for basically free if they just shout for them.

Gil inflation happens when there is too much gil in circulation from overproduction. The same disaster will happen to materials if SE is not allowed to control how many materials a market produces. They can't balance value if they have no control over production.

If they start hard capping more items at 1 yield per synth or making certain items more rare to cover the increased inaccountability of gathering fatigue to keep things predictable, it'll end up screwing the people playing the most legitimately--with one account and one given gatherer.

I just don't like the idea of letting players skirt the intended effects of gathering fatigue by levelling two miners. That's an arms race where only the players who play like freaks win and normal players get dominated for playing like they are meant to. A mule in every city. Two of every gatherer. Three boxing. I don't want to see that pay for performance crap.

These, to me, are non-negotiables to the debate:
1. Developers have to have ways to predict product production so they can balance items appropriately. They *must* be able to predict how many gold ores are made in a day, and that has to stay relatively constant if the economy is to make any sense. Production has got to be limited somehow.
2. Gatherers should not get double jeopardy SP losses from two forms of fatigue as the slowest to level jobs in the game.
3. Gatherers who play as the default demographic--one character, one gatherer at a time, should not be run circles around. This alienates the majority of players and fosters a culture of freakish playstyles that play to RMT strengths.
4. Nonbottable activity.