Community name "Gathering Fatigue"

[Reika]

I think questions and options on this and other anti-RMT related topics would be something good to add to the next player's poll, as soon as they get around to the gathering/crafting area of game changes.

[Zephy]

That is a terrible idea because I'm pretty sure (and you seem to know) it would lead to people showing a preference to unrestricted gathering. I'm not sure people who aren't ranked in DoL to a certain degree (beyond meaning to provide for their own crafting needs) and engaged in the actual selling of their goods are in a position to make an informed decision on the subject.

If you go back and look through the thread pretty much all of the high rank DoL are against this change. We don't mind changing something, already there have been calls for other DoL activities, removing the double penalty, and other less subversive changes. I'm not going to try and intuit specifically why you want the gathering to be unimpeded but serious if your only concern is to improve DoL there are other alternative ways to go about it.

Basically I don't think we should let every single aspect of the game be decided by demagoguery. More than having someone like Tanaka at the helm, doing that would really lead to the sort of game no one would want to play.

[Arcell]

I'm fine with keeping some restriction on item gathering for the sake of the economy and all that. I simply want to see the SP rates to be reasonable, not a ridiculous grind as it is now. I don't mind a reasonable grind but something better than it is now. However that happens is completely open though, be it through straight increases or other activities.

[Reika]

That is a terrible idea because I'm pretty sure (and you seem to know) it would lead to people showing a preference to unrestricted gathering. I'm not sure people who aren't ranked in DoL to a certain degree (beyond meaning to provide for their own crafting needs) and engaged in the actual selling of their goods are in a position to make an informed decision on the subject.

If you go back and look through the thread pretty much all of the high rank DoL are against this change. We don't mind changing something, already there have been calls for other DoL activities, removing the double penalty, and other less subversive changes. I'm not going to try and intuit specifically why you want the gathering to be unimpeded but serious if your only concern is to improve DoL there are other alternative ways to go about it.

Basically I don't think we should let every single aspect of the game be decided by demagoguery. More than having someone like Tanaka at the helm, doing that would really lead to the sort of game no one would want to play.

Maybe so, but the topic may come up since Yoshi-P values our opinions. He has to think about the new people too, not just the old.

[Eldaena]

I'm fine with keeping some restriction on item gathering for the sake of the economy and all that. I simply want to see the SP rates to be reasonable, not a ridiculous grind as it is now. I don't mind a reasonable grind but something better than it is now. However that happens is completely open though, be it through straight increases or other activities.

I haven't done much in the way of gathering leves lately but I expect that the sp gained from them is much greater than standard grinding. If the sp bonuses from parties and leve linking + a set amount of things for all people in a party to gather were set into place (or everyone in the party getting sp for what is gathered), that would be reasonable sp gain in a similar fashion to that of a battlecraft. So many people don't go out grinding on battlecrafts anymore because leves are such better sp due to linking and party bonuses. Why not do the same for gathering?

I'm sure this could be a reasonable fix to the sp that seems fair for everyone. Then grinding for gathering would be similar to grinding for battlecraft. Less sp and more work, however, you can get better loot or items and push ranks/fatigue if you wish? Does that make sense?

[Arcell]

I'd be completely okay with that, it would even things out a bit more SP wise.

[Amineri]

Upon further reflection, I think I also experience dissatisfaction and frustration from the intrinsic nature of the failure, when I actually did everything right.

Let me try to create an analogy, that of "battle-fatigue".

Say that, after a certain number of successful kills, battle fatigue sets in. While battle fatigue is in effect, you can fight monsters as usual. However, upon landing the killing blow, instead of a death animation, you receive the message "The enemy has suddenly disappeared." You get no loot, and 1/2 SP for the fight. I can imagine the outcry now.

[Eldaena]

Upon further reflection, I think I also experience dissatisfaction and frustration from the intrinsic nature of the failure, when I actually did everything right.

Let me try to create an analogy, that of "battle-fatigue".

Say that, after a certain number of successful kills, battle fatigue sets in. While battle fatigue is in effect, you can fight monsters as usual. However, upon landing the killing blow, instead of a death animation, you receive the message "The enemy has suddenly disappeared." You get no loot, and 1/2 SP for the fight. I can imagine the outcry now.

The difference is, however, that when fighting a monster, typically the main purpose is for sp. Where as gathering is a class where you 'gather' items. Getting loot from a monster is a side-effect to usually the main purpose, sp. I'm sure you can argue the same is so for gathering, however, the gathering class was made for getting items. And although I like equality between different classes, battlecraft will always be in the lead on favoritism, changes, and updates, rather than gathering.

Realistically speaking, how many times could any of us swing an hatchet and get 3 logs at a time? And how many times until we get tired and start doing worse? It seems a little unfair that gathering has two kinds of fatigue, but if you look at it in the standpoints of battlecraft and crafting, it seems a little unfair how many items gathering can get in comparison to crafting or farming. I guess they had to balance it somehow.

[Peregrine]

Whether or not there should be a cap on gathering yields isn't something you ask the populace, no more than you would ask a kindergarten class whether or not they would like Ice Cream for breakfast and lunch. It's a stupid idea, independent of how popular it would be with the target demographic.

It is too hard to get the average MMO player to understand why limiting their production can be and is a good thing. Most MMORPG players have not graduated to formal operational thought. A concrete operational player cannot understand the reasoning involved here.

You don't ask the players. You just cap production, and that's that.

Just because Tanaka's gone, and Tanaka would have none of your all's ****, doesn't mean you can have your **** now. Tanaka's not the only one capable of recognizing how stupid some of your all's ideas are, no matter how popular they might be.

[Arcell]

How many times could one swing a large two-handed Axe and brutally murdering a creature before they get tired and start doing worse? Combat classes can go out all day long and gain SP in a variety of ways and the only thing barring them is fatigue. Gatherers can do that but the difference between SP gains of both are tremendous. The SP gains don't even need to be equal, just better than they are currently.

Also Peregrine I agree with your point that the dev team shouldn't listen to every "popular" idea but you could have presented it in a less offensive manner.