Community name "Gathering Fatigue"

[Xenor]

This thread makes me cringe every time I open it and it's always the same posters who just don't get it and fail to listen to reason. So we just go round and round trying to educate kids on basic game design who think their opinion is the only one that matters.

Oh and I hope they don't remove surplus or craft botting will be ten times worse than it is now. People will take a craft 1-50 within a week. Get rid of the bots first and then we can talk about this again.

[Peregrine]

This thread makes me cringe every time I open it and it's always the same posters who just don't get it and fail to listen to reason. So we just go round and round trying to educate kids on basic game design who think their opinion is the only one that matters. Oh and I hope they don't remove surplus or craft botting will be ten times worse than it is now. People will take a craft 1-50 within a week. Get rid of the bots first and then we can talk about this again.

It's less education. They never learn because they're not ready for that kind of concept yet. One degree of indirect causality is impossible for a teenager and even most adults who are stuck in concrete operational thought, so long as there is any more direct effect that these people want. They are, in effect, unable to see the big picture. It's well documented in psychology, to the point where you have to actually model your education around COUNTING on them being unable to understand the reasoning. This isn't about education. They'll either grow out of it into formal operational thought processes or they won't. You have to protect them from their irrational thought regardless, because it's dangerous to everyone.

It's about protecting the game from their ideas and ensuring that the proper what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-that-idea-sucks is displayed for everyone to see. JUST so we're on the same page and no one gets the idea that this idea is remotely plausible.

If some Square Enix intern screwed up enough to get some of the September launch into the game, they're inept enough to listen to Reika et al and shoot themselves in the abdomen. Right now Square Enix is acting like a dad who never listened to his daughter, and now after the inevitable divorce is trying to buy love by giving the kid anything she wants.

A lot of these players who don't know what's best for the game have detected that Square's trying too hard to please its individual players and are trying to press their luck to see what they can be handed out.

Demanding that the gathering yield restrictions be removed is SORELY trying to press your luck. No. What a stupid idea.

[Tiraelina]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ll=1#post81792

Try again.

If you actually tested anything in this game properly you would know the limit is already lower than 150 successful gathers before damages show up.

They are willing to make big changes to the game and players have shown they are willing to take those big changes. DoL/H is one of those.

Nope you are making money so the system is fine, there doesn't need to be any changes at all.

Your own opinion doesn't change how the game was designed and normal fatigue is already on the chopping board.

I'm also still waiting for these other games that supposedly limit how much you can gather in any given day.

You also can't seem to tell the difference between good and bad game design.

[Catapult]

This thread is still amusing to read.

Like a soap opera.

[Motown]

I can see why this system is in place. altho very frustrating for those who play alot. I look at it this way, the system is in place to limit items on the market for a simple reason the crafting system multiplies all over the place, for example 3 copper ore + 1 tin ore = 12 brass nuggets / 2 = 6 brass rings or chokers, so 4 starting turns into 6 in the end if they just let people farm with no cut back, prices on ore will drop like a rock and even if you just make rings and sell them to the vendor you will make far to much gil for it to even mean anything. fair prices on upper end items will mean nothing because with how easy resources would be to get, also having a high lvl craft would mean nothing if they did not limit gathering in the long run.

[SuzakuCMX]

I couldn't really care less about the argument Peregrine and Tiraelina have been having in this thread....I can see points from both sides but I think the real problem with the system is the double SP penalty...you have the class SP threshold, and then you have the threshold for gathering items that the dev talked about in this thread...

I think a good solution would be to make it so that you can still get the SP/EXP for the items until regular thresholds sits in (by counting it as a success) but saying something like "The item is low quality and crumbles as you extract it!" That way you don't get the item but you get the EXP/SP, which means that it isn't such a pain to level a DoL class compared to DoW/DoM. (EDIT: Or if they just increased the SP/EXP gains from getting the materials that you reach the 15th threshold when you also reach the item cap....I think this wouldn't work as well, though, because you'd get a ton of SP/EXP per node . . . DoL would probably level up much faster than a DoW/DoM if it were like this, which isn't much of a problem since they can't do much besides gather but still is a bit weird).

From what I've done since Friday night (not much), it's easier to get gil from farming drops off monsters (such as marmot pelts in the low level areas) than it is to get gil from farming materials from DoL nodes...especially since you can easily vend drops from monsters for quick cash but you have to go through the trouble of selling your DoL drops through your retainer for the best money. Additionally, since the changes to the gathering system, it seems that it's harder to actually farm nodes with a good success rate (what I mean by that is that it's hard to get what material you want to from specific nodes, as least from what I've read). This results in DoW/DoM having an easier time making gil and leveling.

So ... overall I think I'd be happy if they allowed you to continue gaining SP/EXP without getting an item. I don't really care if I get less items from Mining as long as I can still level up for actually doing the work ... I think people who want the item cap to be removed are just being a bit petty and not realizing that there is a good reason for the cap being there (or several as it is).

[Eruantien]

I agree with suzaku. The ore crumbles on extracting is a great idea. its already hard enough to hit 50 on gathering jobs but to add this into place as well just hurts general players.

[Peregrine]

I couldn't really care less about the argument Peregrine and Tiraelina have been having in this thread.... I think people who want the item cap to be removed are just being a bit petty and not realizing that there is a good reason for the cap being there (or several as it is).

So...you do care and are in favor of removing the sp double nerf, while keeping the production limits. That's basically the position of the majority of veteran gatherers in the thread, and really the only thing that needs touched unless we want to start talking about nerfing gathering and cutting production.

Which is also needed but not right now. I'm for an enhancement of sp gain but a cut in production.

[Zephy]

Do you think they already succeeded in curbing the supply of higher tier materials in the 1.17 update? It seems to me like it's not possible to reliably gather in g5 until r43 now (when all of the sweet spots in the approach phase get nailed down), maybe it's a short term band-aid.

[Smokie23]

Well...I just read from post 1 to 259. I must say there are only few persons that makes sense in this entire thread. Peregrine is the only one that really understands basic economics and supply and demand. I suggest you ALL go back and re-read this thread...or at least his posts. Its utterly insane to remove gathering fatigue and would ultimately destroy the economy. I don't know how many explanations you need, that is given in previous posts. The people that say remove that cap is just plain not educated enough on the concept of how supply and demand and the basics of an economy and market.
The only other cries I saw was about DOL skillpoints. Personally I don't use DOL but sure I can see some people taking DOL as a main class or full time (I see it more as a support class). No problem with that. I do not see a reason why there would be a nerf on DOL SP. Would like to hear a dev's explanation for this one.
As for fishing...yes this I think definitely needs to be re-looked at. Looks like handful of people enjoyed the Goblin Bounty Hunters from XI. I thought it was a great idea and enjoyed watching the bots get killed too! Gave me a feeling of hahah take that botters! and also was reassuring to know that SE and dev's are doing what they can to battle RMT.

Had to look it up, here is a classic video of fish bots from FFXI getting killed by a banshee (not a goblin but still justice is served!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46lGxsZ9_D4

Also all you people think that RMT countermeasures are here to STOP RMT for good. That is not why there are here...they are in play because it deters such activities. I don't think any game would be able to stop RMT completely. But for most games...SE is one that takes a serious look into RMT and will act accordingly and implement ways to battle it. You should be grateful that SE is doing such a thing. Look at these other games, you have people shouting all day on the main world chat.

For real...if your hitting those caps, take a break dude. You play too much =D Maybe when more in-game content is released and we have more things to do people won't be so hardcore on the gathering and synth and will be able to do other activities instead of just one or two.