Community name "Gathering Fatigue"

[Eldaena]

You already can leve link gathering leves. Problem is only the person hitting the node gets the SP so you average the same SP assuming you both do equal work.

I'm aware of how that works, that's why I said that idea. I feel like it should be like with battlecraft leves if you're in a party and someone kills a mob everyone gets sp. So should it be if someone strikes an item, I think.

[Arcell]

But as it stands now there's still a market for things one gathers through killing. That point doesn't quite work. If you want something that you can only get via killing (let's say an Uncultured Pearl) you can just go out and farm it. Yet there are still people (and always will be) who either don't want to or haven't leveled a battle class and still want to craft that item.

Not many people really even like gathering as a class so it's not like everyone would magically have an R50 gathering class (or all of them for that matter). Gathering is an incredibly awful grind compared to any other class in the game, there needs to be some semblance of equality.

If you go out gathering for just 1 item it can be just as hard to get it as farming an item from a monster. Nodes have diverse drop tables and it can be hard to get the one specific item you're looking for, let alone enough of it to craft on. It already almost works just like monster drops, they just need to mess with some of the drop rates and things would be fine. It's not like other games where Node X only gives you one, maybe two different items.

[Eldaena]

I believe you can get uncultured pearls from synthesis. I think you should say something like a buffalo horn if you are talking about getting an item from battle that you cannot get by other means.

My point was though, that if you could gain sp in the amount that you do crafting and battlecraft that a lot of people would start doing it in order to avoid the costs of buying those items from the gatherers we have now. It's not a matter of if they like it or not, (like it is now), it's a matter of: it would save them loads of money and not at the cost of the time the gatherers have put into their classes, (again, like now.) If they suddenly increased the amount of sp you can get from gathering to a drastic amount liken 700 sp per successful hit (basing this off of how much I could get grinding particular items or mobs) don't you think that would be pretty unfair to the people that have gotten their gathering classes up high enough to make a profit in this economy only to be closed in on by all the people that would then swarm to gather?

[Arcell]

If they suddenly increased the amount of sp you can get from gathering to a drastic amount liken 700 sp per successful hit (basing this off of how much I could get grinding particular items or mobs) don't you think that would be pretty unfair to the people that have gotten their gathering classes up high enough to make a profit in this economy only to be closed in on by all the people that would then swarm to gather?

Would you say it's unfair to the people who raised their Sentinel Skill by manually blocking at launch that now everyone who puts a shield on can raise their Sentinel Skill passively?

The point is, regardless of how "hard" it was for people to do it previously, that shouldn't even be considered when you can easily improve a bad system.

People would still be lazy and just buy those items from people, or those who have no interest in raising gathering anyway would just buy it from other people. The same goes for items gained through battle, some crafters have no interest in raising a battle class just to farm certain items. Gathering is no different.

Gathering classes work almost exactly the same way Combat classes do in terms of item gains. You kill/harvest monster/node X and you get an item from the drop table. Combat classes are not restricted in how many items they can get and yet you still see people buying and selling those items.

[Eldaena]

Well the items that many get from combat are not as valuable as what you get from gathering. A lot of it is 'junk' that people npc. Or if they do sell it in the marketplace it's for very little. This is with the exception of supremely rare items like +3 brimstone or again a buffalo horn. Most things that gatherers get from their harvests are very valuable to all different ranks of crafters.

And yes I do find it rather unfair that previously people had to sacrifice their sp as a gladiator or a mage in order to gain sp on your shield. If I would have had an option to say anything on it then, I would have. Now shield is not worth as much to people. The same would happen with gathering if the sp would be increased. However, I wouldn't be against a happy medium of the sp gain being the same even if you do not get the item. That way gatherers can still gather if they'd like to and only be bound to the regular class fatigue with the sacrifice of still limited item gain.

Edit: Although, if you were breaking items before your fatigue I don't know if it would be fair to get that entire sp. It's just like crafting that if you fail that synth you only get partial sp gain. Can you damage an item or just not obtain one? Is there any difference?

[Amineri]

Ultimately, I believe that a lot of the issue with gather fatigue stems from the SP issues.

A lot of these could be resolved (and would make the classes more fun) if there were alternate activities for gatherers that did not generate materials to clog the market. In the end, if gathering is to be a full class, some additional play options beyond the single activity are going to be required.

Removal of the gather fatigue will definitely have impacts on the economy of some sort. And, ultimately, it is not a true fix to the gathering classes -- only adding richness through diversity is going to improve them.

So, perhaps rather than focusing upon keeping / removing gather fatigue, we as a community should be proposing new activities for gatherers that would allow them to gain SP, enjoy the game, and yet not add any more confusion or chaos to the economy.

My $0.02

[Eldaena]

Ultimately, I believe that a lot of the issue with gather fatigue stems from the SP issues.

A lot of these could be resolved (and would make the classes more fun) if there were alternate activities for gatherers that did not generate materials to clog the market. In the end, if gathering is to be a full class, some additional play options beyond the single activity are going to be required.

Removal of the gather fatigue will definitely have impacts on the economy of some sort. And, ultimately, it is not a true fix to the gathering classes -- only adding richness through diversity is going to improve them.

So, perhaps rather than focusing upon keeping / removing gather fatigue, we as a community should be proposing new activities for gatherers that would allow them to gain SP, enjoy the game, and yet not add any more confusion or chaos to the economy.

My $0.02

I would like to hope that with the grand companies of Eorzea this may be possible with gathering classes as well as everyone else. But we have yet to hear any of that information.

[Zephy]

Would you say it's unfair to the people who raised their Sentinel Skill by manually blocking at launch that now everyone who puts a shield on can raise their Sentinel Skill passively? The point is, regardless of how "hard" it was for people to do it previously, that shouldn't even be considered when you can easily improve a bad system.People would still be lazy and just buy those items from people, or those who have no interest in raising gathering anyway would just buy it from other people. The same goes for items gained through battle, some crafters have no interest in raising a battle class just to farm certain items. Gathering is no different.Gathering classes work almost exactly the same way Combat classes do in terms of item gains. You kill/harvest monster/node X and you get an item from the drop table. Combat classes are not restricted in how many items they can get and yet you still see people buying and selling those items.

It's entirely an issue of quantity and use. The two are hardly comparabale. In one botany session (about 180m) I can generate ~75 Walnut and Yew logs. That is 300 synths of either r30-40 (Yew) or r40-50 (Walnut) CRP grind mats. Unrestrict everyone's yields and there will be a glut of materials, above and beyond what is in demand. You can't get that sort of yield killing the high rank fungus mobs not even in double or triple the time. Right now in my server Wutai there is a dearth of Yew tier carpenters looking to rank. You can't really sell Yew at this point even pricing it much lower than everyone else.

The only materials that a botanist can reliably sell are Walnut, Yew (but not anymore), and Flax. If SE completely removes fatigue. The market is done, over with, finished. You guys say that you so badly want DoL to be able to stand alone as their own class. But by making our supply of materials completely unrestricted you're going to pretty much destroy an essential aspect of what makes a class in an MMO autonomous: the ability to make money.

I'm with Trubble let's instead help by coming up with ideas that give DoL alternative means for advancement that do not directly impact the games economy in such an adverse way.

[Arcell]

Well you could also make alter the drop rates and quantities of the items to reflect the changes.

I don't even care that much about the item drops myself, I'm more for fixing the ridiculously nerfed SP in comparison to the other 16 classes. I know some people who either won't do gathering or refuse to take it past a certain point just because it's an unbearable grind right now. Even if it was just better than it is now most people would be happy. The way it is now though is just like pulling teeth.

[desslok]

as a rank 50 dol, i am in full support of gathering fatigue from the item aspect. removing the fatigue system completely will do a whole lot more damage to the in-game economy then good. all se needs to do increase sp gains from fails while fatigued.