Community name "Gathering Fatigue"

[Arcell]

I agree on the most part however the fishing mini-game is really too easy for people to bot as it involves no moving around unlike mining or botany. A person could literally start up the program, and leave it to fish 24/7, so really this sort of fatigue is needed to stop absolute destruction of the game's economy (lots and lots of fish ).

If fishing followed the same route as mining and botany, having to change node after it has depleted after a set number of gathering attempts, then RMT/ botters would have more problems with trying to be lazy.

But there's still a mini-game with response from the game you have to read and respond to otherwise you'll get nowhere. I found fishing to be the most unforgiving in this respect. If you don't know exactly what the text clues mean you'll usually get nothing, at least in my experience. I'll agree though that the nodes should run out.

Also I agree with origamikitsune, the SP gains for gatherers needs to be increased to a comparable level with crafters and adventurers. Right now, the only way to get really decent SP gathering is to do leves. An adventurer can go out and kill all day long and will continue to make progress until they hit red fatigue (which I've never seen personally). Limiting a gatherer this much is way too harsh.

[Griss]

Well. Thanks for finaly explaning this to us. not so sound pissy but we have only been asking about this since beta. Punishing legit players like this is a bit of a kick in the teeth. Its like harsh Drm on pc games the only people who are actualy effected by it are the ones playing by the rules and its one of the myriad of things driving people away from the game.

as for my feed back Either scrap the whole darn thing or at least add an extra 50-100 more successful gathers to the pool. Like some one else said fishing, mining, and botony are not hobbies there classes. Classes that are essentially limited to 250 actions when they first start out and then 10 more every hour after that. Hell i can pump more items and gill into the games economy by just going out and killing mobs.

[origamikitsune]

It is nice to know how this works. It is nice to know that SE is serious about RMT. However for someone like me who place mostly DoH/DoL, it is very is heartening. I have spent hours trying to get all of my crafting and gathering jobs to the low 20s. It took me one leve party to do the same with a combat job. To top it off, I ended up with 500k gil from doing so.

Gathering fatigue as means of RMT control is not viable. I will grant that gathering fatigue is important in terms of preventing a glut in the market. However, it makes the game nearly un-playable. You can add all the features you want, but if I am not leveling up at a decent rate, I am not going to play the game.

To put it in perspective, how would DoW/DoM players feel if after 250 kills they stopped getting SP? Oh wait... we've already given them more SP... And lowered the SP requirements for lower/mid level... and removed the per-hit SP gain in favor of per-kill... the list goes on.

The point is, SP needs to be adjusted. I don't feel it is appropriate to raise the SP gain on a fail in general; that could make it to easy to gain SP by intentionally targeting and failing higher level nodes. But certainly higher SP on a fail at a node appropriate to your rank. And/or more SP on a successful harvest so that those 250 or however many actions are worth something.

[Amineri]

The point is, SP needs to be adjusted. I don't feel it is appropriate to raise the SP gain on a fail in general; that could make it to easy to gain SP by intentionally targeting and failing higher level nodes. But certainly higher SP on a fail at a node appropriate to your rank. And/or more SP on a successful harvest so that those 250 or however many actions are worth something.

Unfortunately, it already is very advantageous to target higher grade nodes in terms of SP.

Gaining SP via many (easier) gather attempts at lower grade nodes is counterproductive. If I am getting 7 gathers * 80 SP per gather = 560 SP per node, I'm eating through 7 out of my 150 in short order. A bare 21 nodes would eat up all of my 'clean' gathering. If it takes two hours to do this (six minutes a node), I gain another 20 gathers (from regen), enough for another three nodes. Essentially, after 2 hours of gathering to gain SP, would have hit 24 nodes and gained roughly 13.5k in SP.

In contrast, if I attempt nodes far above my rank (like Grade4 at rank 22), if I am getting 2 attempts per node, and 260 SP per successful gather (and still 130 SP per fail!), this yields 520 SP per node, but I am only consuming 2 gathers instead of 7, for almost the same SP (although in reality it is a bit lower, since the success rate is lower). However, if the same six minute per node rate holds (it takes longer to find the nodes, but less time to process them, say), then after 2 hours and the 21 nodes, at most there would have been 42 successful gathers, while 20 gathers would have been regained. In practice 30 successful gathers would be more realistic, which is not far above the regeneration rate.

On a final note, gathering from secondary points is the worst. You gain 1/2 SP on a successful gather, and the gather rate is so fast that it is quite easy to burn through the 150 gathers in short order, especially because the secondary points don't move, so it's very easy to cycle around them.

TL;dr - The current system promotes targeting very high grade nodes in order to gain SP, rather than nodes that are notionally within your rank.

[Hotohori]

The people who are saying remove the fatigue that restricts the number of item gains are not thinking straight. When everyone is rank 50, skill points are no longer a concern and the main goal is items. Gathering classes gain items very quickly and amass large number of valuable items easily.

Items will only remain valuable because there are limiting factors in the items generation as well as rarity. Unless they somehow create a sparkling super node that could be call a Notorious Node that can only pop under extreme conditions and that yields the best drops for the gathering classes making all other gathered items obsolete, limitation fatigue is the answer. A world resource limitation fatigue system will only make it so casual gatherers find it difficult to gain any materials at all.

Until you are 50 please feel free to use "Sweat of Brow" which occasionally doubles your skill points and experience points gain. I find this skill to be simply amazing and would love for anything similar for a DoW, DoM or DoH class. Personally I have seen this skill stay on for over 20 casts when fishing only to kick in again afterward. I would much prefer to play something for a short while for fast skill and experience points over having to grind long hours.

When you are rank 50, pat yourself on the back for accomplishing something very difficult. I understand it is not something you can rush to achieve easily. You can surely start to use "King's Yield" instead to increase the number of items yielded per gather. This skill is quite nice as well and I have seen more gold sands during leves when active, when I would only see 1 normally. Some say with the proper stat distributions, the number of items yielded per gather increases meaning if you want more items perhaps you should reallocate your skill points to improve so.

If you enjoy keeping the value of your items high, either for selling raw or crafting out, you will want a item fatigue system because there will always be 1 or 2 truly hardcore accounts to farm nonstop. This may be RMT or even a real player trying to monopolize a certain market. This is exactly what the fatigue system wants to prevent. A casual to normal gatherer will never be able to keep up with one of these types of players who can devote long hours to the game. One player would be all it takes to flood and undercut the market full of items without a gathering fatigue system. Having more items in stock means they are able to sell for less because of supply and demand and basic economics.

Crunching out some numbers using the given information by the developers, 150 gathers with about 400 average item yields over 2-3 hours time per day with roughly 27 hour reset in time without fatigue. Three separate gathering class fatigues to work through still giving a solid 7-8 hours per day of unfatigued gather time while netting 1200 or so items. If you are hitting this fatigue daily on all three gathering classes, you are simply playing to much.

The only thing I see legitimate claims for about skill point gain issues is the lack of grade 6 nodes for botany and mining. I am not quite there yet as for my gathering classes but I can imagine how difficult it would be to rank up from being forced to gather from a grade node below optimal. So I won't ask for them to remove gathering fatigue but I would like to ask for the release of grade 6 nodes for mining and gathering.

As for bots, fishing needs a serious fix right now. I see many rank 50 fish bots running at rank 3 nodes yielding very high amounts of fish daily without ever moving. Having a high rank gathering class reduces the difficulty of the actual gathering process and when gathering from nodes far below your rank the mini games are super easy to bot. Certain fish will almost always jig properly at the same location and with a set jig pattern to obtain hardest to easiest fish with increase jig chances makes the market saturated with fish. Certain baits can target specific fish making bots easier to run as well which is something a miner or botanist cannot do at all. Of course they are using multiple 50 fishing accounts to increase their profits and the dock waiting for the ferry from Uldah to Limsa Lomisa is really crowded lately on my server.

[Hubert]

I understand that RMT had brought FFXI's economy to it's knees a few years ago but this kind of limit is not the answer. Rather it seems more like some kind of blanket medicine that merely attempts to suppress RMT activity but does nothing to truly get rid of it. My vote goes against the current system.

[Adol]

This current system makes it seem as if it puts the player on the same playing field as RMT/ botters.

It makes it so the RMT/ bot cannot get the upper hand in item procuring, meaning that both legitimate and illegitimate players now get the same amount. This is fair in terms of item aquisition.

It isn't fair, however, that people should have to suffer sp/ xp reductions. As said by other people in this thread, DoW/H do not get this sort of fatigue, whereby the more you do something, the more you'll fail it, giving less sp/ xp.

I can see that it sort of makes sense theoretically, that when you fail something, you'll receive less of a reward for it. I do think, though, that people should be given the full amount of SP/XP considering they take the time to go through the mini-game.

If this isn't an acceptable proposition then in order to balance this perhaps the whole gathering system needs to be reworked...
I wouldn't know what to suggest though...

[Josef_Jortunn]

A significant issue with this course of action is that RMTs are free to create as many characters as they like, overcoming the fatigue issue; regular users, attempting to rank up, do not have this option. This hurts us more than it hurts them.

[SilvertearRen]

A significant issue with this course of action is that RMTs are free to create as many characters as they like, overcoming the fatigue issue; regular users, attempting to rank up, do not have this option. This hurts us more than it hurts them.

An example: There was a party of 10 RMT botters in Horizon the other day. All with identical names. So that's 10 accounts for the same person. So yes, the system hurts us more than it does them. What we need is a more active system of hunting the RMT like the Anti-RMT task force in FFXI. That is the only truly effective means of minimizing the impact of RMT.

[Eekiki]

Gathering is not where RMTs are earning their gil. They're earning it through battlecraft leves. Get rid of all these penalties, and make the levequests reward players with guild marks and the occasional item instead of mountains of gil.