Marriage feedback [inofficial Poll]

[charlemagne]

As mentioned previously, this has less to do with religion and more to do with realizing that this coddling of the homosexual experience is ultimately destructive to the human race. The population of many Western civilizations are teetering on collapse at this point, with replacement levels far below what is required to maintain current populations. As a result, these nations are spending themselves into oblivion, with an increasingly taxed societal safety net being paid for by fewer and fewer children.

This has nothing to do with slavery, either. You are free to behave in your bedroom as you see fit - that does not mean that your decisions about your personal behavior are valid, or match up with what is, by your own admission, an ancient custom that 'predates those religions which try to define it in their terms.' Why then do you seek to be admitted to that ancient, outdated custom?

Firstly the population argument is both incorrect and irrelevent. Populations on the brink of collapse? Nonsense. I never said marriage was an ancient custom, it is an old concept which exists in a variety of customs. Concepts and customs change, they always have. Otherwise we would still be clubbing women over the head and dragging them back to our caves.

[Eagleheart]

Firstly the population argument is both incorrect and irrelevent. Populations on the brink of collapse? Nonsense. I never said marriage was an ancient custom, it is an old concept which exists in a variety of customs. Concepts and customs change, they always have. Otherwise we would still be clubbing women over the head and dragging them back to our caves.

It is difficult to accept because you do not actually see it occuring, but even a cursory examination of birth rates in the Western world (Japan as well) will reveal that what I said about replacement rates is accurate, to say nothing of China and their forced one-child policy.

In any event, I have spoken my peace, and I will be going now. I intend to spend the entirety of the day psyched up for 2.0. o.o I wish everyone a great afternoon.

[Kuzak]

Concepts and customs change, they always have.

And in this case, it is a change for the worse.

[Loggos]

There is no discrimination at work here.

Marriage is a sacrament going back many thousands of years binding a man and woman together - supposedly permanently, but nowadays we like to cheapen the meaning of marriage - into wedlock where they are exclusive to one another, and form the core of the human familial unit.

A homosexual pairing can not accomplish this. It has no reproductive value. It is not the same thing, nor should it be treated as such, no matter how much the "gender identity" politics/wishcasting of the world may change.

You don't even have to be religious to realize how this rails against nature itself. Darwinism also precludes this idea, and recognizes it as ultimately self-destructive to the race. Why should it be honored as is actual marriage?

Not that anyone honors it anymore, but we won't make any societal progress by doubling down on that.

We are currently more than 7 billion human beings, tendency towards much more to come as (at least theoretically) human growth should be exponental. :P
We have already calculated when our resources will run out, so basically we are (soon?) going to suffer a lack of vital resources which will ultimately endanger our human civilisation to a grave extend. So basically LGBT do their job to save the world.

I'm sorry, I'm a bit sarcastic about this! (Please take this as a bad joke that is not supposed to be against either side of this.)


While I do understand your point with the family/reproduction you can't choose who you fall in love with. Marriage (at least how I understand it) is for promising the other person to spend your whole life with him/her. There are also heterosexual couples who don't have children so accordingly they had failed evolutionary purpose. But they probably still love each other.
(And other than that human often act against nature and preservation and evolution and so on. )
Other than that this will not mean that there are more homosexual persons - homosexuality has always existed and is no 20th century invention. It is just about how it is viewed by society and not that suddenly everyone has to turn gay so that human reproduction will fail...


Isn't love what it is about? And if you happen to be LBGT and you fall in love with someone you can hardly change it, can you? At least I found it quite hard (being a girl) not to be in love with a boy even if I had been turned down by him for already a long time.

And besides: We are not reproducing in FFXIV anyways.

[Taika]

There is no discrimination at work here.

Marriage is a sacrament going back many thousands of years binding a man and woman together - supposedly permanently, but nowadays we like to cheapen the meaning of marriage - into wedlock where they are exclusive to one another, and form the core of the human familial unit.

A homosexual pairing can not accomplish this. It has no reproductive value. It is not the same thing, nor should it be treated as such, no matter how much the "gender identity" politics/wishcasting of the world may change.

You don't even have to be religious to realize how this rails against nature itself. Darwinism also precludes this idea, and recognizes it as ultimately self-destructive to the race. Why should it be honored as is actual marriage?

Not that anyone honors it anymore, but we won't make any societal progress by doubling down on that.

First of all, the definition or meaning of marriage isn't up to you. For me, for example, marriage is about companionship and love, for you it seems to be about reproduction and biology. I'm not judging or forcing my definition on you, but you have no right to do that on me either. Neither am I saying your marriage is somehow cheaper than mine, nor have you any right to claim the opposite.

Secondly, we're not talking about a real life marriage in this thread. Even if we were to evaluate our in game marriages based on their reproductional value (do you realise how ridiculous the idea sounds?) we should evaluate them in the context of the game world and how "biology" works in there - and of that we don't have much to go with.

In short, your argument is completely based on your very personal opinion and you shouldn't try to force it on anyone else.

[Eagleheart]

First of all, the definition or meaning of marriage isn't up to you. For me, for example, marriage is about companionship and love, for you it seems to be about reproduction and biology. I'm not judging or forcing my definition on you, but you have no right to do that on me either. Neither am I saying your marriage is somehow cheaper than mine, nor have you any right to claim the opposite.

Secondly, we're not talking about a real life marriage in this thread. Even if we were to evaluate our in game marriages based on their reproductional value (do you realise how ridiculous the idea sounds?) we should evaluate them in the context of the game world and how "biology" works in there - and of that we don't have much to go with.

In short, your argument is completely based on your very personal opinion and you shouldn't try to force it on anyone else.

The entirety of this thread is the desire to force the opinion of gay marriage being valid onto others, conforming to what is quoted above as an ancient and outmoded custom. I am not forcing anything on anyone, nor am I advancing a new opinion. I am merely standing ground on a biological fact.

[KiriA500]

The entirety of this thread is the desire to force the opinion of gay marriage being valid onto others, conforming to what is quoted above as an ancient and outmoded custom. I am not forcing anything on anyone, nor am I advancing a new opinion. I am merely standing ground on a biological fact.

Stop talking about reality...the point of this thread is about marriage in the game. Magic is impossible in reality (unless you're Criss Angel, but then you'd just be a warlock), yet we're capable of doing so in this game. Why aren't you pointing out stuff like that?

[Eagleheart]

Stop talking about reality...the point of this thread is about marriage in the game. Magic is impossible in reality (unless you're Criss Angel, but then you'd just be a warlock), yet we're capable of doing so in this game. Why aren't you pointing out stuff like that?

As mentioned above, the thread was begun with the idea of the changing times and societally accepted norms shifting. If we begin there, we will probably end up returning to that point of contention over the course of the conversation.

[Taika]

The entirety of this thread is the desire to force the opinion of gay marriage being valid onto others

The point of the thread, as I see it, is to say that there is no point in limiting the rights of players to choose their marriage partner in game.

People who oppose this idea of equality should at least try to argue why their rights should be limited - in the context of the game. So far I haven't seen a single reason to why same sex marriage wouldn't be - as you put it - valid in the world of Eorzea.

[Hirmu]

The entirety of this thread is the desire to force the opinion of gay marriage being valid onto others, conforming to what is quoted above as an ancient and outmoded custom. I am not forcing anything on anyone, nor am I advancing a new opinion. I am merely standing ground on a biological fact.

Biology and evolution also promote the killing (whether by action or inaction) of anyone who is not physically and mentally strong enough to survive against ambient competition. It also promotes the subjugation of the weaker members of the pack in order to fulfill the needs of the strongest member/members. And humans are pack animals. The beatiful ability of a human mind is to overcome these biological rules and to feel compassion, love and understanding towards other beings. This is also called morality. I'm sure not even you would wish the full extent of the evolutional cruelty to be applied to all humans.