Will Relics create the same problems that they did in FFXI?

[Altena]

Speedruns doesn't take skill beyond knowing what the fuck you're doing and how to play your job because the relic specific speedruns relied on everyone being on point which consists of:

Hmm if I am not mistaken, the very definition of skill is everything you just listed....

-Knowing how to listen.
-Knowing how to gear your job. (Dedication.)
-Knowing how to play your job probably (Dedication to learn.)
-Knowing the battles. (Dedication to learn a run properly.)

Let me just break what you just listed, 3 things which I would class under the "player skill" category. Let me pull up a dictionary so you know that I am not pulling this from my backside to prove the point.

Knowing how to gear your job
the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well
Knowing how to play your job properly
a craft, trade, or job requiring manual dexterity or special training in which a person has competence and experience.
Knowing the battles
As above.

As for knowing how to listen, that is a social skill.

It doesn't take dedication to know how to play an easy game. As it was stated in previous comments not by me, that there are a lot of good players out there, which is why you see a large number of relics.

Hamlet Defense. Speedruns in dungeons (everyone can benefit, but it's generally done for the one(s) on that quest portion. Garuda. NM fights in stronghold. Faction Leves. Farming Currency (to speed it up). Ifrit Extreme. Caravans. Behest (though these can be solo'd I guess.)

Not sure about you, but I completed all my seals using a reasonably fair system, that also included provisioner advantages, which included little to no manipulating - as each member was willing to participate to further their OWN character - and that is exactly what happened.

Regarding dungeons - All of the people I did this with were either up to, or beyond this part of the quest, so it benefits themselves greatly, and it benefits the people that are beyond the quest as more people caught up = more people for other content in the later part of the questline.

Garuda - many people still need weapons. Totems were passed to them by a good chunk of us on relic quests. This should be a non-issue as anyone with half a brain and no desire to get a relic will want to complete this.

Stronghold NM's - takes 10 mins with 5-6 people. If you have friends, then this is another non-issue.

etcetcetc my point with this is yes it is a group quest, which is another reason why you see so many relics. If you are struggling with help with this, it is not because you suck at manipulating/controlling other people, it is because you aren't playing with like minded or skilled players that wish to go for a relic themselves. Difference between both games is in XI you have 18 people working for 1 person's relic. In XIV you have 8 people working for their own relics. Help to get helped? Quite a simple logic.

Your next point was currency farming. You creatively broke my quote up to sound worse then what I stated, so let me put it back together in once sentence.

manipulating other people to help you, mindlessly farming currency

XI - you have 18-36 players in a zone, making you currency/gil to progress with your relic.
XIV - you have 1 person (yourself) farming currency for maybe 2 days if you are efficient. This is a SOLO part of the quest. If you are able to get people to help you with this, then good job.

Darkhold, Cutters etc etc

I covered this already, the people that do this with you are either on the quest or beyond it. So it is in their best interest. If they are neither, then they have their eye on Darklight, which in an effective EG linkshell is not usually the case.

Besides, a lot of people - myself included find dungeons fun.

Behest - this point made me laugh. You do it once. Solo. On a lvl 50 job.

Caravan - I agree this is batshit boring, along with hamlet but once again - 3-4 people on the quest and you can get it done.

Hamlet - Yeah, I don't even consider it part of the relic quest as it's a pre-req to start it only. But I do agree it is boring and repetative. Already covered this earlier anyway.

until you had the gil or currency to buy them

This was regarding the melds, it's a small hurtle. Definitely is at no level of farming over 200 million XI gil (which is worth more) worth of currency. There needs to be some gil or random element to it to satisfy the Tanaka void.

Me: they just took more time, grinding, player manipulation, and selfishness.
you: So does XIV's relics...still no difference the more you explain it this way.

Sorry but if you think XIV relics take excessive amounts of TIME then how does a "casual" like myself obtain a few? I still stand by that there is a much larger element to skill in XIV then there is in XI - as it basically involved (if i remember correctly) farming a butt-tonne amount of gil/currency, doing 2 easy fights, and trading in a few cheap crafting items.

Oh you were being sarcastic lol, damn my sarcasm detector is off today, since you do more grinding in XIV's version of relics than you did in XI's, especially with XIV relying more on RNG than XI's. The only grind to XI's relics is the currency, with XIV you had to grind a dungeon you were already grinding for other gear..ONTOP of having to eventually grind currency too.

Firstly, if you believe the whole XIV quest is a grind, then you shouldn't be playing this game - as it includes all end-game content. Saying that XIV's relics required more RNG is laughable. The very drop rate on ancient currency on XI is an RNG in itself, which is the part of the quest that takes 3-6 months (depending on efficiency) of flat out grinding to even come close. Currency alone has a random drop rate, with 100-pieces being extremely rare (1-3 per linkshell run if you're lucky.) XIV includes a couple of weeks of hamlet, maybe 2 days of grinding SOLO, a bit of team effort (with team rewards) and 2 of the toughest fights in the game at the moment.

Double melded class weapons, which although expensive (can be cheap depending how you go about it), beastmen currency, and hamlet seals (which are only done once in your whole XIV career) is practically the only things based off RNG.

A big point I believe you seem to be overlooking in my original post was that XI involved having to drag 18-36 players along with you- for very little reward (if any), regardless if they desired to build a relic or not, and get them to mindlessly kill mobs for you. XIV involves a group effort, to get everyone in that group a relic, and does not include anywhere near as much grinding through as XI did. If it did, only these "hardcore" players would be holding relics, and yes - I am a casual, I want my slice of the cake too.

So I stand by my point that grinding out for 3-6 months, sure might be dedication but it definitely does not involve skill, and is the cheapest way to make an item in the game rare. XIV's take has a heavy weight on player skill according to a dictionary definition of the term, rather then a quest predominately based on RNG (XI).

The best gear in the game should be based on skill, not grinding til the end of days.