Will Relics create the same problems that they did in FFXI?

[Shougun]

People need to get off their high horse and realise that dedication does not equal player skill. Being "hardcore" is simply a phrase used to the people who sit on their computer all day, mindlessly farm items or partake in boring grinds to get powerful loot at the end of the day. It is quite sad when these "hardcore" players with relics & amazing gear are getting out performed by someone with a GC or Garuda weapon and mediocre gear. I don't really see the current relic quest as a major flaw as there is a heavy weight to player skill over currency farmed.

As I said in my previous post, XI relics cannot be compared to XIV for this exact reason. Relics in XI were obtained by manipulating other people to help you, mindlessly farming currency and doing boring content repetitively until you had the gil or currency to buy them. In XIV it is heavily weighted on player skill, and rewards those that have that skill. To me that is worth more then someone who grinds all day.

Call me a "casual" but I see someone with no life, who sits down and endlessly farms all day has bigger issues then someone who sits down to defeat difficult content. To me, skill is more valuable then grinding, and in that same respect - that skill should be rewarded at a much higher level to the "hardcore" grinder.

So I disagree, XI relics were not more rewarding~ they just took more time, grinding, player manipulation, and selfishness. XIV has a healthier approach to rewarding the players that are skilled enough to defeat the harder content in the game.

I'm always a fan of skill > "stuff"

Like the materia system is "stuff" biased (RNG).

But one of the problems with skill based content is that in all honestly (contrary to popular mockery) there are a lot of skilled players out there. So you wanted an item to be rare but all a sudden surprise its not rare at all.

With an MMO (persistent games) you have to introduce forced grinding because if you just went by skill we'd have already beat the game.

The longer it takes the rarer it is, certainly they could make more of the grinding involve skill and less boring gather over 9000 tokens but then creating that content could/probably would take a long time.

There is logic in FFXI relics - so to is there logic in just making a couple epic hard ass boss fights solo or not.

[Riv]

upgrading relic would be nice, with cooler looks too

[NoloeTazier]

I think once we get a cap increase that's when we can truly expect a difference in the Relic quests. The majority of people will have the lvl 50 Relic itself, but not the say lvl 60 or lvl 75 upgrade for said relic. They can easily make pre-reqs for the upgrades take longer, but on along the way you have better weapons drop from primals or raids that are there to tide you along until you can complete that Upgrade quest. We will have upgrade quests for all AF gear as well. I'm sure we're not done with Curious Gorge and Solkzagyl (unless Dalamud kills them).

We don't know what 2.0 will bring, but I don't know why there can't be a balance with Relics and other weapons. But I guess people would hate situational items.

[Zenaku]

each relic can be upgrade to the next level as what yoshi-p said he want to make them the most powerful wep. So i'm sure when the level is 60 or something they be a new quest chain and you use your current wep as the base to get the new one.

So far that what i know yoshi-p said he want to make relic the most powerful weps and the current PLD sword could become excalibur one day that one of the example.

[Altena]

But one of the problems with skill based content is that in all honestly (contrary to popular mockery) there are a lot of skilled players out there. So you wanted an item to be rare but all a sudden surprise its not rare at all.

With an MMO (persistent games) you have to introduce forced grinding because if you just went by skill we'd have already beat the game.

The longer it takes the rarer it is, certainly they could make more of the grinding involve skill and less boring gather over 9000 tokens but then creating that content could/probably would take a long time.

There is logic in FFXI relics - so to is there logic in just making a couple epic hard ass boss fights solo or not.

All they need to do to make a fight more difficult in it's current state is make fights less linear. There should be less known "phases" and more "random phases". If a fight was less linear, the difficulty would increase ten fold. To people who know a specific fight (such as garuda, ifrit, dungeons) the content gets stale and easy because there is a set order to how the fight works. Once this order is known, and a solid strategy is publicised - this is when the fight gets easy. Forcing more random events, basing it more of a reactional fight rather than a strategic fight - will alone increase the difficulty.

In regards to "a lot of skilled players in the game" - yes I totally agree, however the problem with the community at the moment is people who spend time doing mindless grinding are seen as the "skilled" players in forms of the "hardcore" and "casual" titles that get thrown around every 2nd post. My comments in the previous few posts I made was not based on the system itself, but how people perceive what is to be considered "difficult" or "hard to obtain".

I couldn't care less if I had a RARE item or not, what I care for is having a GOOD item. Sure I am fine with giving these mindless grinders these so called "rare" items, however I would hate to fall into the XI trap again of only making the "good" items accessible to those grinders. Something as big as a relic should not be given to those who necessarily have more time then others - but to those that have more skill. While they may become less rare, who cares? This isn't a fancy dress contest.

[Davy]

SE made relics available very early on in FFXI's lifecycle in 2003. They were the top weapons until 2010 when abyssea came out and gave us Empyrean weapons some of which were better then relics.

Relics created an artificial ceiling on weapons in FFXI in that no weapon released in that 10 year time span could be better then a relic or have higher damage on it.

Now we have FFXIV they released relics early on as well. Are we going to see a repeat of what happened in FFXI where every new weapon that comes out has to be worse then relics? Or will we actually see them come out with new weapons that are better then relics?

Correct me if I am wrong, but isnt that the point? To have a top tier weapon for every job, thus the name Relic.

[Madruk]

There was already a statement more powerful weapons will be avail in 2.0. Relics in this game are in reach of even the most whiny casual player if they aren't terrible at the game and have at least a modicum of social skills.

[Shougun]

There was already a statement more powerful weapons will be avail in 2.0. Relics in this game are in reach of even the most whiny casual player if they aren't terrible at the game and have at least a modicum of social skills.

Way off topic but I wanted to say chrome doesnt like where your sig is coming from Madruk lol - the base site has been reported for malware XD

fohguild.org or w.e

[Rau]

Can anyone else not access the second page of this thread because of malware from fohguild.org? >_>

[Shougun]

Can anyone else not access the second page of this thread because of malware from fohguild.org? >_>

lol its Madruks signature I hope he moves the image to an image hosting site XD.