Will Relics create the same problems that they did in FFXI?

[Elexia]

but these weapons are supposed to be a mark of the status of the best in game. And what better way to determine the strongest adventurer than one-on-one duels on a server-wide or world-wide scale?

That would mean they need to:

A. Make one set PvP based
and
B. Make one set PvE based

Otherwise forcing people into PvP who have no desire to partake in it is a horrible design decision and what kills off MMOs the most because as we seen in PvP focused MMOs, they die very quickly due to a lack of good PvE especially end-game.

[syntaxlies]

That would mean they need to:

A. Make one set PvP based
and
B. Make one set PvE based

Otherwise forcing people into PvP who have no desire to partake in it is a horrible design decision and what kills off MMOs the most because as we seen in PvP focused MMOs, they die very quickly due to a lack of good PvE especially end-game.

i consider vanya gear to be pvp since the starts are very nice for crafted and its meldable and its class only, but not being to use a relic would be a deal breaker when choosing job or class to pvp.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

cut.

leave pvp for pvp equip, not pve

[Vanguard319]

dynamis you buy a clock then have 1 hour to finsh then your locked out for 3 days.
no prerequisites just means the game will dry up faster and give less things to do.

Not anymore, you now buy a key item, and you can now repeat every 24 hours. Just 5-manned Dynamis-Qufim last night.

[Crysten]

Now what about the time these events start? Well, seeing as how SE operates mostly in Japan time, naturally they would choose Japan prime time for administering these events but perhaps on a weekend so more people can participate. "But I don't play 24/7! How can I make time for these events??" Then clearly you aren't dedicated enough to be best of the best.

Those who go above and beyond to achieve in this game are the ones who we're trying to reward here. That means calling in sick and doing whatever else it takes to make time and show up for the games. If that's not something you're willing to do, then clearly you're too casual to be champion. But that's all right, not many people are dedicated enough to be the best. I'm not, and this really isn't about me or people who complain about exclusive content aimed for the hardcore. It's about recognizing the players that can be called the best in this game we love to play.

No, just no. I'm all for rewarding skill and ability but never to the extent that you suggest. I've no doubt that maybe a handful of people are happy/insane enough to say "welp, gotta be up at 4am every day for the next 6 weeks to defend my PVP title!" but to that person I would shower more pity than praise. There's hardcore, and then there's stupid. That is definitely the latter.

I'm of the mind that if these relics continue to be the best for the forseeable future then yes, you've gone and removed most incentive for hardcore endgamers to get into new content. Why bother with the best of the best when you already have it, especially with the rate of acquisition on relics over the past few months?

I'm hoping now they've had a chance to redesign the relic quest, that there's a lot more challenge and a lot less luck involved than what's been given to us so far.

[Altena]

Relics will be upgradable, and not necessarily BIS for all of eternity.. Truth of the matter is people are raving about how easy the quest is, and how little effort it requires, yet a good chunk of these same people probably don't even own one.

Do remember that while yes, quite a lot of people have built a few, there are also more then likely a huge number of "new" players that will look at these relics and go "wow" for quite a long time. So yes they probably will be the best in slot for a few level caps. I won't be overly heartbroken if an equivalent such as something similar to an Empyrean/Mythic pops up, and so it should - I would love to have options. However people have to remember that the people that played til last save, built a few relics, defeated all the content - will still be king of the mountain and in a smaller % for some time considering the server population increase for new/returning players.

Before the last save, there were a lot of relics around the place, but you have to remember that those very people- the ones that stuck around til that point will be the more "hardcore" or "determined" players.

So my point? Yes they are easier to obtain then XI was (partly because instead of having to get 18 people to build 1 person a relic efficiently, you can take 8 people through the quest), however the advantage with the current XIV relics is that there is actually a heavy weight on skill rather then flat out grinding beastmen coins til the end of your days.

Anyone with a deep pocket could obtain a relic in XI. However in XIV, there is a benchmark of skill required (17m dungeons/garuda/ifrit). While some may say it's a walk in the park, the majority of people find dungeons and ifrit especially challenging. So comparing XI to XIV isn't really a viable comparison here, as farming currency does not dictate skill level. It dictates persuasion to get people to work for you, it dictates how deep your pockets are, and how lucky you are with RNG. That to me is not worthy of a relic, but defeating a difficult boss (such as Ifrit extreme) does.

I can assure you that Ifrit will probably just be the beginning of this path. When the game reaches it's last cap, I expect the final boss required to upgrade your relic to be next to impossible, less linear (as the current primal fights are), and introduce a much smaller percentage of fully upgraded relics.

If I am not mistaken, Yoshi said in an interview that relics will be upgradable. While they may continue to be best in slot for a while, the next tier above them will stem from the relic. (ie Excalibur will stem off the Curtana after fulfilling a quest requirement - etc) This includes a graphical change to the relic also...

So my understand of what their plans are - is simply that the current relics are the base item of what is to come.

In summary, they may appear to be everywhere, and while some people are 7/7, you have to remember that the players that are currently still playing, and currently own a relic, will actually end up being a small percentage of the population on the server come 2.0.

[elreed]

well dont forget this are relic weapons, they might add legendary weapons, above those, im ok with that weapon ceiling, only if it takes a lot of effort to get 'em.

you can beat any boss with lesser weapons, you will only do less damage than the ones with that weapon, i dont think thats a game breaker, i think a game breaker would be having the chance to get every item without effort, thats one of the problems that new MMO's have atm. I would love getting an extra WS just because i have a relic/legendary weapon that nobody else can do.

If you give things easily to a casual player will say "been here, done this, got this...goodbye" I bought XI a few days ago, because i missed it a little bit and with all this stuff of alphas and betas, who knows when its gonna be released 2.0, im gonna play it until 2.0 goes out, and i can say that i really missed the feeling of not having good stuff at all and wanting some of the gears of other players, going to places like Rampere's Tomb and trying to avoid hard mobs, practically every mob aggro by sound or sight.

They need to reinforce the good things they had, while im looking forward to get a more standar MMO, i dont want all the stuff that standars offer atm...

[Zumi]

There's a big thing you're missing. Between 2003 and 2010 what % of the FFXI player base owned a Relic Weapon. (even just 1)
Relics have been in 14 for what, 8 months what % of the XIV player base owns them. (and in many cases several)


Until Abyssea relics were so damn rare that it wasn't an issue. According to the 9th vana'diel census (the one before Abyssea there were 3,246 completed relics (of any type) across all worlds. (Click here for source)
There were what 30 servers around back then so about 100 relic weapons per server.

The relic of XI was a whole different calibur to the relic we have in XIV. In XIV the current relics are Incredibly common place for something that's supposed to be a Relic. If I recall though Yoshi had said what we currently consider relic won't always be the best weapons, something considered relic now might not be relic at somepoint in the future. If you follow the PLD story there were 4 mighty swords forged or something. Maybe at somepoint there'll be a totally new "relic" quest for one of the other 3 swords and curtana may become obselete as a relic weapon.

Almost everyone in my LS had a relic or 2 pre abyssea they weren't that rare. If you were in any endgame LS most everyone had one.

[Zumi]

Mythics were better for certain situations, also the ToAU and WoTG jobs weren't attached to Relics. Empyreans aren't all better than relics either unless you took the time to get it to 99 and even then, chances are your relic WS aftermath was better.

Also, the first relic wasn't completed for a very long time after it's introduction simply because of the fact you were missing 2 key zones: Beaucidine and Xarcabard. Once those zones released, those who had the currency were able to get the final steps completed. So while it was introduced very early in the game's life, it took a long while for even the first one to pop out. In XIV once you get a relic you can get the rest very quickly so the relics of XIV are already casualized. Content design made it much longer than it would actually be on a well designed system.

So these aren't the ultimate weapons, they can't be..there's a good chance there will be real ultimate weapons if ARR ever gets off the ground.

Weather relic or empyrean was better varied from patch to patch. There was a major shift to relices becoming top again in the patch that added merit WS. However there are still some jobs where the empyrean is better, Sword, Great Ax, Hand to Hand, Gun. But when it comes to relics that are better Ragnarok >>>>>>>>> Caladbolg, Scythe. It went back and forth some to what was the best.

[Andrien]

The first concept art of ARR showed a PLD wielding a glowing Curtana. I think that confirms it'll be upgradable.

Relics/Legendary, I hope that each will be equal, but also stand out unique from each other with different powers.