Will Relics create the same problems that they did in FFXI?

[Almalexia]

-Introduced no actual content outside of a cloned boss fight

cloned

EX is the relic quest. Everything before that point is baby spit.

[Tsubarta]

Almalexia

I fail to see your point. It's still an incredibly lazy rehash that artificially increases the difficulty instead of doing something creative with the fight...on top of virtually being the oldest primal battle in the game dug up from the grave. For the finale of the quest to create a relic weapon, it's pathetic no matter how many nails and eruptions spawn. The faction quests are more interesting than that.

[Almalexia]

I fail to see your point. It's still an incredibly lazy rehash that artificially increases the difficulty instead of doing something creative with the fight...on top of virtually being the oldest primal battle in the game dug up from the grave. For the finale of the quest to create a relic weapon, it's pathetic no matter how many nails and eruptions spawn. The faction quests are more interesting than that.

I thought it was legitimately challenging, exhilarating and a worthy component of the relic quest.

But then I actually did the content a great many times. Where did your opinion come from?

[Yolteotl]

Dealing with what this thread has devolved into instead of the OP:

Basically the problem is Elitists have to grasp at straws to feel entitled to content in this game because there really isn't that much in-game that is so time consuming it doesn't boost their ego or make them feel better than everyone else for obtaining it. It's the problems the Elitists are going to have to deal with, SE has ALWAYS stated that FFXIV is more designed for casual gamers. TA is gone, Relics are 'too easy'; maybe these Elitists need to learn how to play a GAME without having to feel they are entitled to content they need to help their self-esteem or egos IRL by looking down on other players who haven't met the same in-game obligations, but still pay the same subscriptions...

its like ppl saying they wish things were back to where u had to walk uphill both ways while snowing in 100 degree weather with no shoes to get to the letter carrier to send a letter someone would receive a month later... instead of sending a text

[Madruk]

Dealing with what this thread has devolved into instead of the OP:

Basically the problem is Elitists have to grasp at straws to feel entitled to content in this game because there really isn't that much in-game that is so time consuming it doesn't boost their ego or make them feel better than everyone else for obtaining it. It's the problems the Elitists are going to have to deal with, SE has ALWAYS stated that FFXIV is more designed for casual gamers. TA is gone, Relics are 'too easy'; maybe these Elitists need to learn how to play a GAME without having to feel they are entitled to content they need to help their self-esteem or egos IRL by looking down on other players who haven't met the same in-game obligations, but still pay the same subscriptions...

its like ppl saying they wish things were back to where u had to walk uphill both ways while snowing in 100 degree weather with no shoes to get to the letter carrier to send a letter someone would receive a month later... instead of sending a text

Make a game too easy and even the "I'm entitled to everything because I pay for it" crowd will lose interest and leave. The past ten years of MMO history has proven this over and over (looking past the fact most were unfinished, just like this game was).

[fusional]

Basically the problem is Elitists have to grasp at straws to feel entitled to content in this game because there really isn't that much in-game that is so time consuming it doesn't boost their ego or make them feel better than everyone else for obtaining it. It's the problems the Elitists are going to have to deal with, SE has ALWAYS stated that FFXIV is more designed for casual gamers.

you're projecting. really, really hard. so hard i'm afraid you may burst a vessel.

and do quote where SE has said what you claim they said. if they've always said it, this should be an easy task.

can i predict the future really quickly? you won't. but moving on-

TA is gone

wrong. TA as a required condition for loot is gone. TA remains alive and well in the form of leaderboards which will show the best clear times per server (perhaps also across all servers).

Relics are 'too easy'; maybe these Elitists need to learn how to play a GAME

if we find relic too easy to obtain, it would appear we've learned how to play the game quite well.

...without having to feel they are entitled to content

you're projecting again. you should really relax with that. crying your eyes out about how content should be easier so it will cater to YOU, as a more casual player, when yoshi and devs have commented several times about relic being designed more with the hardcore base in mind- smacks of entitlement. trying to pass it off to the hardcores while flipping the script just makes you look desperately delusional.

hardcores have no disillusions about who they are, what they are, what is theirs and what isn't. do we cry about av/cc difficulty? no. do we cry about skirmish difficulty? no. do we cry about quest difficulty? no. do we cry about storyline difficulty? no. do we cry about leve/faction leve difficulty? no. do we cry about primal difficulty? no.

because none of that is designed with us primarily in mind, and we understand that.

but then yoshi and the devs threw us a bone. we got relic quest, ifrit extreme and rivenroad hard. they were sufficiently challenging in the short term, and while we were generally pleased with what the team was able to deliver with such a broken engine- in the end we lamented that the difficulty was either gimmicky (latency) or simply passing (rivenroad), and that maybe relic quest was a touch short.

twist it however you like, but that's reality.

but how about the casuals? well, i give you general forum. take your pick of entitled bitching and moaning threads about wanting every last thing in the game to cater more to their gaming preferences without leaving anything at all to their hardcore counterparts. ifrit extreme? impossible. rivenroad hard? nearly impossible. relic quest? way too long, way too expensive, way too dependent on RNG, and speed runs are a sin against god himself. hamlet seals? impossible. hell, even garuda... which is 100% casual-friendly leaning on the side of difficulty to give them access to a challenge- next to impossible.

and apparently all this is supposed to change based on what they want. that's apparently not entitlement, but if the hardcores ask for even ONE SINGLE THING regarding content yoshi and devs already said is for them- apparently it's they who are entitled. apparently.

except not.

speaking for myself- i don't look down on you because you haven't had the same progress as me in game. what you do with your time is your own business and progress is progress. an accomplishment is an accomplishment. beat garuda recently? good for you. just beat rivenroad hard days before final save? awesome, congrats.

no, you conjure a wonderful straw man but it simply isn't the case. i look down on you because *you* are an entitled crying wanker and *you* have the audacity to then project this onto others. it's truly pathetic.

get over yourself. we do pay the same subscription but the only person i see here asking for handouts, asking for just as much and all of the same without equal effort, asking for things to *only be* the way *they* want it to be and *not* to cater to *anyone else* is YOU. only YOU. THAT is entitlement. THAT is ego.

so it would appear in the end it's *you* thinking you're better than others, *you* trying to assuage your own fragile self-esteem... and your method of doing this is to take everything wrong with yourself and blame it on anyone else.

i get that we're playing a game built on fantasy, but it seems like you've constructed a fantastic new reality of your very own.

[TheFatHousecat]

;>

[Chardrizard]

an entitled crying wanker. it's truly pathetic.

get over yourself.

/slowclap...

[Yolteotl]

actually im not saying that I'm entitled to anything in particular. But if they haven't implemented anything to the level people are stating they want, there is a direct reason the company has chosen not to, and no I'm not gonna waste my time citing all the times SE has stated that the game is focused on casual play, because it has been stated repeatedly since before the 1st alpha had even been released over 2 1/2 years ago. whether Tanaka era or Yoshi-P, that's like having to cite examples of how the world isn't flat just because you haven't paid attention.

The point was, it's a game. And if you feel the dev's are completely ignoring a sector of the player base who want things even more 'challenging' by taking up severe amounts of time, you're probably right but doesn't mean they are going to stop ignoring it anytime soon as they still desire to build a strong casual base for ARR than to put in old-school oriented content that the casuals would never touch, and more resembles work than play.

TA as a leaderboard/achievement is irrelevant, just as the kill timers in FFXI were after an instance compared to the utility of TAs in the old format.

Your personal assumptions about myself are way misguided as well. I play the game consistently more than SE designed it for as well, but i don't complain about it. Instead i realize that people that over-play are an exception to the design concept (but maybe not an exception to the server community) and "just roll with it", still managing to enjoy the game by helping others instead of complaining, niche-forming, or needing something that makes me stand out that requires too much time from too many assets just to see any results for one person.

As long as content is updated consistently (as planned) and with relevance, the game can still offer plenty of material to keep players of any style occupied without putting in content that promotes Elitist egos by feeling superior to the have-nots. It's irrelevant to put in severe time-sinks if the delevopment team instead focuses on releasing relevant content. Severe time-sinks are put in to hope the players ignore the low pace at which new content is being put out.

And actually tying this in to the OP, alot of the reason why Relics stayed the top-tier weapon for 7 years in FFXI and other weapons were inferior for so long was BECAUSE of the fact that if someone DID obtain a Relic in FFXI it usually required around 2 years of a large number of assets to acquire at the time, so they didn't want to cheapen what took soo much 'time' but not necessarily challenging.

[NoctisUmbra]

actually im not saying that I'm entitled to anything in particular. But if they haven't implemented anything to the level people are stating they want, there is a direct reason the company has chosen not to, and no I'm not gonna waste my time citing all the times SE has stated that the game is focused on casual play, because it has been stated repeatedly since before the 1st alpha had even been released over 2 1/2 years ago. whether Tanaka era or Yoshi-P, that's like having to cite examples of how the world isn't flat just because you haven't paid attention.

Excuse me, but FFXIV post Yoshi-P is not held accountable by anything before that said by Tanaka. They even made a public announcement that the game was going to go by different standards and not be so casual oriented - this took place around the time they started making changes such as removing surplus/fatigue, adding gear options that are significantly tougher to get than at the time, and announcing such changes as not being able to start the game or progress in the story as a DoH/L and requiring a battle class to play the game.

If you pay any attention to the patterns in the progress of the game, and Yoshi-Ps design choices, he isn't focused on casual play. That is by no means a selling point for A Realm Reborn either. The idea he has in mind is casual accessibility - which is quite different than focus on casual play.

So, your arguments failed before they started.

PS: Casual friendly/accessibility does not mean making it so everyone can get everything. It goes without saying a casual player should not expect to achieve everything in an MMO. Not in a good one anyway.