Focus Classes amongst their respective Jobs

[elreed]

They weren't better when they were opened ended messes of nothingness, even Yoshida didn't like how it felt that way. It was built this way specifically to flow into their jobs rather than making jobs something different, but as we seen on these forums, people were actually complaining and bitching about the concept of doing a quest to unlock a new job that and I quote: "Should be available to everyone at the start."

So the community will hold back any logical changes.

Thats what i meant, saying that classes needs an overhaul, at release classes were a mess, you could be a thm tank and even be better than gladiator (a lot of people soloed dodore) you could be a gladiator and not be a tank, but that was a huge mistake by the director at that time, leaving us players the freedom to be whatever role we wanted, i remember making a pseudo RDM at that time, what the classes needs is more of that freedom we had but with its restrictions, i agree that gladiator should make more damage than pld by far but having less defense and less tanking abilities, but more abilities to pick from different classes (maybe having a secondary weapon/dual wield option instead of shield)

I don really know if they're leaving classes in 2.0, but if they leave'em that could be a way to do it, we need a reason to use classes over jobs in solo situations, like marauder i dont see how it can be better than warrior in solo and party play, they need to give certain skill to classes only, that you lose when you switch to a job, but winning other skills fit to your role, and maybe having a second option on your main weapon for classes like yoshi said that may have 2 or more job options, like gladiator being able to switch to paladin or dark knight, well you could have the option of double wield short swords or use a gratsword instead, by changing the weapon the ws could be different and add that you can use several skills from other classes....

[Punainen]

Classes are for solo play, jobs are for party play. Why does that need to change?

[Alaltus]

Thats what i meant, saying that classes needs an overhaul, at release classes were a mess, you could be a thm tank and even be better than gladiator (a lot of people soloed dodore) you could be a gladiator and not be a tank, but that was a huge mistake by the director at that time, leaving us players the freedom to be whatever role we wanted, i remember making a pseudo RDM at that time, what the classes needs is more of that freedom we had but with its restrictions, i agree that gladiator should make more damage than pld by far but having less defense and less tanking abilities, but more abilities to pick from different classes (maybe having a secondary weapon/dual wield option instead of shield)

I don really know if they're leaving classes in 2.0, but if they leave'em that could be a way to do it, we need a reason to use classes over jobs in solo situations, like marauder i dont see how it can be better than warrior in solo and party play, they need to give certain skill to classes only, that you lose when you switch to a job, but winning other skills fit to your role, and maybe having a second option on your main weapon for classes like yoshi said that may have 2 or more job options, like gladiator being able to switch to paladin or dark knight, well you could have the option of double wield short swords or use a gratsword instead, by changing the weapon the ws could be different and add that you can use several skills from other classes....

They wouldnt have placed classes on the official FFXIV website and announced a new class to go with them(Arcanist) if they were going to just say to heck with it soon after that wouldnt be a sign of a stable development team. The development team have decided to stick with Classes wether we like it or not and we have to live with it atleast untill they've played with them some more in alpha/beta and decide otherwise.

Classes are for solo play, jobs are for party play. Why does that need to change?

I agree i'm trying to push more focus towards that end and to get away from the sharing class skills system if not entirely so as to allow for more unique to Class and Job actions.

[Kiote]

If you don't like the current class system that is a shame. It is a great way to play Solo. They are significantly different than Jobs.

Further restricting class skills is a waste of time. People who do not like classes as they are right now will never like classes.

Please stop trying to ruin them for others.

[Firon]

One example in spike DMG doesn't mean you had better DMG overall on GLA than you would WAR.

Only thing you need to know is GLA gains more dmg less cool down on skills and will be doing more ws than war which = more dmg. After they fixed plds ws dmg prob in that sub pacth the gap between war/pld DD got closer than it should imo.

[Rhomagus]

I love classes. They are far superior to use when soloing.

I love the class specific gear. I love being able to use other classes abilities that I've unlocked on whatever class I'm on.

I also love jobs in a party atmosphere. I think BLM needs to be a little more effective, but that's easy by making their job only abilities more effective.

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

Only thing you need to know is GLA gains more dmg less cool down on skills and will be doing more ws than war which = more dmg. After they fixed plds ws dmg prob in that sub pacth the gap between war/pld DD got closer than it should imo.

Do you have parse results? You must be paired with some pretty terrible warriors.

[Shurrikhan]

I certainly wouldn't mind seeing classes changed a bit to make them more interesting -- cross-class abilities, while enjoyable don't seem especially distinct or fitting. That said, the means for this shouldn't overlap with jobs.

I usually see classes being a sort of window into the possibilities of a fight that can bring almost any tool to serve it while working within the confines of its weapon, and jobs as a distinct toolset (which then causes a 'window' of its own, but less directly).

Honestly, in this sense, it seems like almost everyone *could* tank, and everyone *could* dps, to varying extents. The means need only vary greatly.

And I suppose this doesn't really apply specifically to any of the sets of abilities we have right now. But, as so many will be changing in ARR, that seems the least of problems in this vague idea.

[whoopeeragon]

I could see Classes gaining their own unique skills past a certain level while Jobs branch the other way, but the balancing of that would be a nightmare. Not to mention the inevitable bitching of the community of "WHY CAN'T I USE THAT ABILITY ON MY PLD IT'S UBER ON MY GLA" etc etc.

One thing I can suggest is for classes to use TP more often than the jobs. That's to say, have more abilities that use TP which can THEN be equipped across the classes. Radiance, for example, from the CNJ line of abilities - TP weaponskill, does damage, and regains MP. A good ability even for the melee classes, which allows them a few more precious drops of MP to cure or buff.

What I'm more thinking about is probably best described in a chart...Let's use Conjurer as an example.

Level 1 - Stone [CNJ/WHM]
|
Level 2 - Cure [CNJ/WHM]
|
....
|
Level 30 - Cura [CNJ/WHM]
|
/ \
(QUEST) Level 30 - Purge [CNJ]------Presence of Mind [WHM]
\ /
|
Level 34 - Sacred Prism [CNJ/WHM]
|
/ \
(QUEST) Level 35 - Radiance [CNJ]------Regen [WHM]
\ /
|
Level 38 - Shroud of Saints [CNJ/WHM]
|
/ \
(QUEST) Level 40 - Shock Spikes [CNJ]------Esuna [WHM]
\ /
|
Level 42 - Aerora [CNJ/WHM]
|
/ \
(QUEST) Level 45 - Boon [CNJ]------Holy [WHM]
\ /
|
Level 46 - Curaga [CNJ/WHM]
|
Level 50 - Repose [CNJ/WHM]
|
/ \
(QUEST) Level 50 - Coruscation [CNJ]------Benediction [WHM]
\ /
|
(The following is just speculation on what can be added with level cap raise)
|
Level 55 - Reraise [CNJ/WHM]
|
/ \
(QUEST) Level 55 - Evanescence [CNJ]------Eschaton [WHM]

Explanation of abilities chosen (and my own interpretation):
Purge - removes elemental attributes of target enemy. Meaning that resists against Aero and Stone gets removed, even allowing Fire, Blizzard, Thunder etc. to potentially hit harder given the right circumstances.
Radiance - TP move, deals non-elemental magical damage, chance to regain MP.
Shock Spikes - covers body in electric waves that have a chance at paralyzing the enemy.
Boom - increases cast and recast time to lengthen spell duration of next enhancing spell.
Coruscation - TP move, deals variable non-elemental magical damage, chance to absorb HP and MP. (combo; Radiance - chance to also absorb TP)
Evanescence - TP move, deals high non-elemental magical damage, chance to inflict DoT effect. (combo; Radiance - attack turns into AoE target)
Eschaton - deals heavy holy damage in area of effect around target enemy, chance to inflict Dia effect.

Of course, it's really the system that I'm trying to get through. I feel that the class-quests are a bit of a waste, since they generally don't really do anything for the [Classes] themselves. So they could have class and job quests run parallel, and reward abilities at the end of each questline.

The only condition is that the class abilities gained from questlines can be used by OTHER classes, but cannot be used by jobs. Jobs gain their own specialised abilities.

[Valmonte]

If you don't like the current class system that is a shame. It is a great way to play Solo. They are significantly different than Jobs.

Further restricting class skills is a waste of time. People who do not like classes as they are right now will never like classes.

Please stop trying to ruin them for others.

What i know is that Classes are holding back the Job system for no other reason than piss poor decisions regarding the way there are to be handled. classes are nothing more than jobs on training wheels, that's there intend purpose and i hate it.