Focus Classes amongst their respective Jobs

[whoopeeragon]

Perhaps but what i'm talking about is allowing Classes to Solo more on their own merits and less with the aid of other Classes while it is interesting trying to swap abilities around(though currently alot of them are downright useless) people forget that they had to level a bunch of classes some of them almost the entire way through. Chameleon for example is lv 42 Archer which is ridiculous for such an important ability for a player to have to level so far through archer's experience bar to obtain.

When new players come to 14 if its the same as it is now they will find they have to spend numerous hours on classes they dont like and dont want to play. And if SE increases the time it takes to level(which they said they will) that places this system as a even larger burden on players who just want to play whatever it is they want to play. The current system doesnt really effect me i already spent all the work getting classes up but it seems a waste to keep the status quo. I could go for a reduction of the number of class skills equippable but still leave some to choose from but with the increase in time taken to level they should reduce the burden on players.

Indeed, I feel the same. Which is why I proposed the class-only skills that become available through quests as well, much like how the job abilities also come. (refer to my extra long post on the previous page)

[Alaltus]

Indeed, I feel the same. Which is why I proposed the class-only skills that become available through quests as well, much like how the job abilities also come. (refer to my extra long post on the previous page)

I see, i could agree with something like that atleast so long as the Mp drain/gain weaponskills actually work =P

Edit: Though if i would ask for anything its that Class defining abilities be weapon specific/ specific to that class to keep the flavour of said Class and save the poor guy who has to lv Conjurer to 45 for Boon.

[Rhomagus]

Perhaps but what i'm talking about is allowing Classes to solo more on their own merits and less with the aid of other Classes while it is interesting trying to swap abilities around(though currently alot of them are downright useless) people forget that they had to level a bunch of classes some of them almost the entire way through. Chameleon for example is lv 42 Archer which is ridiculous for such an important ability for a player to have to level so far through archer's experience bar to obtain.

When new players come to 14 if its the same as it is now they will find they have to spend numerous hours on classes they dont like and dont want to play. And if SE increases the time it takes to level(which they said they will) that places this system as a even larger burden on players who just want to play whatever it is they want to play. The current system doesnt really effect me i already spent all the work getting classes up but it seems a waste to keep the status quo. I could go for a reduction of the number of class skills equippable but still leave some to choose from but with the increase in time taken to level they should reduce the burden on players.

Classes are fine for their intended purpose.

Chameleon is useless solo. What are you going to do? Shed hate from the mob only you are currently fighting? Your example for the argument you are trying to make doesn't fit in this case. You don't need to use chameleon solo, so leveling ARC to 42 is not something a solo player would have to do.

Even then, to fix that (even though it doesn't need to be fixed) just change the level that Chameleon is available to a lower level.

[Rassa]

I don't want to see the class system go. It's great that jobs have an edge for party play. And for players leveling their first class, job skills make it possible to play a role effectively without grinding for cross-class abilities.

But classes are fun, for playing solo or in small groups where the "right" job is missing. An archer loaded with DD skills is very powerful and satisfying to play. A pugilist that can cure to full hp between fights without waiting 45 seconds spends more time playing the game and less time waiting for cooldowns. And some great combos, like Bloodbath/Blood for Blood, can only be done with a class.

If you don't enjoy playing with a class, no problem, but don't take that option away from those of us who do. A game is about having fun, not just being maximally effective.


As for second jobs on a class, SE just needs to code it so that second jobs level up from 30 again. It makes sense to let the class and first job grow together, but "magically" having a second level 50 job rightly annoys everyone who's posted about it. Start job 2 at level 30 and make people earn it -- then there's no problem.

[Alaltus]

Classes are fine for their intended purpose.

Chameleon is useless solo. What are you going to do? Shed hate from the mob only you are currently fighting? Your example for the argument you are trying to make doesn't fit in this case. You don't need to use chameleon solo, so leveling ARC to 42 is not something a solo player would have to do.

Even then, to fix that (even though it doesn't need to be fixed) just change the level that Chameleon is available to a lower level.

Forgive me i ment to say that Classes should be able to solo and lowman party more on their own merits and Jobs should be able to perform their roles in a Party more on their own merits. I also agree that they could just simply reduce the level of chameleon specifically when it comes to that issue though i wonder how much it would effect party balance at the lower levels. Atleast in a balanced game where you could take hate from the tank in dungeon etc etc being able to lower hate at lower levels would effect damage output and other things. So they may have to make changes to other things as well in doing that.

[Makwa]

Since PvP will be in here, why not make classes excel at that? Maybe some made-up excuse in the lore will ban job stones or something. Or even buff stats if you're a bare class in a match. Gives a reason to gear a class. Jobs can be for PvE, party play, etc.
I always thought they could have done more with the "specializations" jobs have, especially if they could do 2 to a class later down the road.
Like Conjurer. Switching to WHM could nerf nuke ability, and buff healing and support abilities. A second job for CNJ could be Oracle, focusing on the nuke/enfeebling aspect of CNJ, perhaps through use of high-tier Water/Aero/Stone spells.
Alternatively, Thaumaturge's second job could be Time Mage, utilizing support(Haste) and enfeebling(Slow, Stop for "final" spell) to play different than BLM's sheer power in nuke ability.
But who knows, the fact that class/job share a level makes it weird, would have to do the majority of spell/ability learning by doing quests.
Ofc, just talking out my ass and speculating, haha. Who knows, maybe classes/jobs will be more distinguishable by 2.0 retail anyway.

[axemtitanium]

I'm guessing classes ALREADY excel at PvP because of the increased survivability, at least for 1v1 PvP. Classes have been repeatedly called "better for solo play" because of access to a ton of keep-yourself-alive abilities like Cure, Stoneskin, Sentinel, Second Wind, Sanguine Rite, etc. A Dragoon would be torn to pieces in solo PvP because 5/10 added abilities are wasted on DRG-only abilities instead of stuff which will actually let you take more than 2 hits before dying.

[Orophin]

Classes are for solo play, jobs are for party play. Why does that need to change?

With the exception of BLM, I feel all the jobs can solo as well or better than their class counterparts. BLM was the only job I didn't level up with solo because of how restricted their spells were. I chose to go THM so I'd have Stone and Aero at my disposal.

The last couple of replies are interesting though. Classes should have a place in PvP. It's kind of a shame that's the only thing they seem to really be useful for though.

[axemtitanium]

With the exception of BLM, I feel all the jobs can solo as well or better than their class counterparts. BLM was the only job I didn't level up with solo because of how restricted their spells were. I chose to go THM so I'd have Stone and Aero at my disposal.

The last couple of replies are interesting though. Classes should have a place in PvP. It's kind of a shame that's the only thing they seem to really be useful for though.

Yeah, my LS was discussing how THM is basically going to destroy PvP because of access to Sanguine Rite, Sentinel, etc. and also have the best ranged attacks in the game.

[Shurrikhan]

Since PvP will be in here, why not make classes excel at that? Maybe some made-up excuse in the lore will ban job stones or something. Or even buff stats if you're a bare class in a match. Gives a reason to gear a class. Jobs can be for PvE, party play, etc.

I think it will honestly be about the same as most PvP composition decisions. PvP usually involves picking people off, and its harder to do that to a member with all his personal defense bases covered as opposed to one that's pure DPS and reliant on the other members. You can likely form a (potentially) higher dps and higher mitigation party with jobs, but seeing as players will do everything in their power to ensure you don't get close to your potential, you'll likely see higher results through less inter-dependent party makeup (classes).

I always thought they could have done more with the "specializations" jobs have, especially if they could do 2 to a class later down the road.
Like Conjurer. Switching to WHM could nerf nuke ability, and buff healing and support abilities. A second job for CNJ could be Oracle, focusing on the nuke/enfeebling aspect of CNJ, perhaps through use of high-tier Water/Aero/Stone spells.
Alternatively, Thaumaturge's second job could be Time Mage, utilizing support(Haste) and enfeebling(Slow, Stop for "final" spell) to play different than BLM's sheer power in nuke ability.
But who knows, the fact that class/job share a level makes it weird, would have to do the majority of spell/ability learning by doing quests.
Ofc, just talking out my ass and speculating, haha. Who knows, maybe classes/jobs will be more distinguishable by 2.0 retail anyway.

Hey, speculation is both fun and often helpful. And I'm hoping for the same here. Honestly, I think changing the way abilities are given in general will do more to help classes feel fulfilled and diverse than 'cutting the fat' off choices of rigid abilities though.

On that note: I kind of hope that rather than, in terms of what abilities cross over, having exact abilities built by leveling a class, we actually build more holistic traits. Nothing like the small bonuses or ability-modifying traits we have now, but instead something that moves away from all the modest (even if effective in their own way) cooldown auxiliary abilities, and adding general aspects of gameplay that become central to the class (and to crossed classes).

For example, lets say Archer has a trait called Collusion, which can probably develop into different angles -- something that works similarly to Distract, and then to enmity loss through misdirecting enmity, subtle ability usage, and camouflage. Now, as a Lancer, I'm using this to strike at key times to move my attack's enmity over to the tank, and matching feints with dodges through the 'distract' part of the trait.

Inversely, I could take something like Marauder's Sadist (tp on debilitating effects, by 'tick'), and attach that to my Archer, useful for its slows and bleeds (Bloodletter currently). Or, Marauder's Steadfast on a Pugilist, gaining AP and bonus damage against the attacker according to the knock-back move absorbed or mitigated. Or I could be an incredibly dickish defensive Lancer using Gladiator's Set-up, causing my feints and parries (also blocks if able) to shortly increase my critical strike chance.

However this might work, it should feel more fulfilling than the current Quelling Strike, Chameleon, Bloodbath, Cure, etc secondaries that don't seem to fit that well within the confines of a class. I like the idea of being able to pull stuff like Fire and Cure out of the magic classes, but from a physical discipline, the effects should be replicable without using the exact ability, instead integrating the style and usage into the class's own gameplay.

Jobs will not be eclipsed by classes because of this. A Lancer for instance is simply a lot more open in its choices, with many more roles available to it, than a Dragoon. But a Dragoon may well tear apart a Lancer in terms of dps, and have many added mobility choices entirely unique to that class. High mobility, high physical burst. Good burst CD AoE potential. Dragoon.

The traits it can pick from will likely be limited, and quite not by class exactly (instead, just sheer offensiveness of the trait), while also adding unique traits in addition to Lancer's.

*This would probably be mixed with something having more to do with the weapon styles themselves, to the point of having an incredibly nice javelin throw on an Archer-equipped Lancer, or the old Warrior-Ninja axe-thrower on an Archer-Marauder.