How to make a game without requiring copy-pasta'd terrain.

[kukurumei]

Well it's also an issue of how much data can be loaded in between loading screens as much as it is an issue of constructing the data. Given that the zones aren't seamless, it's safe to assume that the content is loaded in whenever you 'zone' into a new area. Having too many unique objects cannot be realised with the current game engine (Crystal Tools) which doesn't feature game-world streaming technology. They would have to compromise on the size of the zones if they were to make the zones more unique.

... or fix their engine.

Well if it was PC, I would say it's a non issue, but since it's definitely also PS3, yes, there is a point of no return if you throw too many unique textures into.

Though I doubt that's hardly the problem in this instance. Copy and pasting is a sign of cost saving, not a sign of engineering smoke and mirrors. Especially when you consider they copy and pasted stuff that are not remotely near each other. Aka procedural repetition on leaves is one thing, trees lined up is another.

Simply put they did not want to design another tent, or have an artist move branches and trees leaves around. heck the fact that FF14 is so copy and pasted, even it's map design is copy and pasted shows both a lack of talent and a lack of resources.

There was too much and too extensive cloning this time around to blame it on technical problems. There's no getting around that fact, it was lazy work.

[gifthorse]

Well if it was PC, I would say it's a non issue, but since it's definitely also PS3, yes, there is a point of no return if you throw too many unique textures into.

Though I doubt that's hardly the problem in this instance. Copy and pasting is a sign of cost saving, not a sign of engineering smoke and mirrors. Especially when you consider they copy and pasted stuff that are not remotely near each other. Aka procedural repetition on leaves is one thing, trees lined up is another.

Simply put they did not want to design another tent, or have an artist move branches and trees leaves around. heck the fact that FF14 is so copy and pasted, even it's map design is copy and pasted shows both a lack of talent and a lack of resources.

There was too much and too extensive cloning this time around to blame it on technical problems. There's no getting around that fact, it was lazy work.

Mapping terrain isnt hard. Surely it's more difficult to make it so it all fits together nicely.

Technical limitations are obvious reasons for the cloning. So i think some degree of cloning is necessary (using algorithms to mask it or by repeating the structures themselves). It would have been forgiveable if SE had cloned wisely.

[Akumu]

Mapping terrain isnt hard. Surely it's more difficult to make it so it all fits together nicely.

Technical limitations are obvious reasons for the cloning. It would have been forgiveable if they had cloned wisely.

Agreed. They could have at least TRIED to cover it up imo. My main issue with the old team is that everything seems to be done by some lazy hands. There are so many features in place(if not all) that feel incomplete. I'm not saying they didn't work hard but WTF HAPPENED? It's hard for me to give them(old team) some slack because I can't find anything that says "Perfect" or "Nicely done!"

However, I guess I can say at least my character moves realistically?

edit: Oh and good job with the graphics

[Neptune]

Good call belgian. what were they smoking. yoshida said in the current interview that there were technological problems, and we can attest to that going back to alpha. the game was one big technical mess and he said other employees within SE could have helped but didn't because they had their own plates full. but now they have the whole company coming together to take a look at their problems so they can't work it out. obviously the dev team dropped the ball when it came to next gen large environments. no doubt there. they will remedy it though.

[Verecund]

Procedural terrain generation is good for breaking up monotony, but there definitely still needs to be some uniquely-tailored areas to make the world actually feel alive (one of the problems I had with vanilla Oblivion...). This is something people should learn from WoW (to name one example :P)... even though terrain maps are pretty much painted, there are tons of other little areas of interest that are thrown in (which is what truly makes the world seem like it is actually a world of its own rather than a series of variations randomly generated ).

FFXIV really doesn't seem to have that (or at least nearly enough of it) IMO.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

i know what copy and pasting looks like. Try playing dcuo. that REAL copy and pasting. and the world is tiny. And gift. There is a differbce betwen a large world for sake of large world (aka fuel) and what feels like a large world. (elder scrolls morrowwind/oblivion). And with copy and pasting in ffxiv seems to be you know about it so you notice it more. No one complains about it much, just some troll of a dude pointed it out as a weak anti ffxiv hate thing. PPl strarted noticing it also and demanded change. ffxi had some copy and pasting like all the trees in rollanbery feilds is all the same tree. Same for all the petrified trees batillia downs.

I find it funny this is even an issue, I seen games with worst copy/pasting and no one complains about it. DCUO is oneof them.

[Nuru]

Its funny how these are How-To Threads and not "Here's an idea/suggestion/recommendation."

[Kilta_Firelotus]

Procedural terrain generation is good for breaking up monotony, but there definitely still needs to be some uniquely-tailored areas to make the world actually feel alive (one of the problems I had with vanilla Oblivion...). This is something people should learn from WoW (to name one example :P)... even though terrain maps are pretty much painted, there are tons of other little areas of interest that are thrown in (which is what truly makes the world seem like it is actually a world of its own rather than a series of variations ranomly generated ).

FFXIV really doesn't seem to have that (or at least nearly enough of it) IMO.

i like oblivion because your in 1 region. so obviously its gonna be the same looking, where as WoW goes through extremes too quickly. Like a mixed up puzzle. Like going from blood elf area of golds oranges and sun shine then ghostlands smacks you in the face there is no gradual change.

[Verecund]

i like oblivion because your in 1 region. so obviously its gonna be the same looking, where as WoW goes through extremes too quickly. Like a mixed up puzzle. Like going from blood elf area of golds oranges and sun shine then ghostlands smacks you in the face there is no gradual change.

Haha, that's true... they definitely took their own art style way too far sometimes (I don't know how I played through The Burning Crusade without one epileptic attack... )

[Kilta_Firelotus]

WoW maps are not very cohierent (sp). I think ffxiv did a great job since the areas are pretty seemless. You also gotta understand alot was added in ffxi and WoW since their launches. ffxiv world is still pretty small we only have a few zones. think about 6 maybe 7 that I know of. 3 cities 3 areas out side of each city then the creepy area with the dragon corpse.
you have a forest, desert, cape plains. and a rocky terrain. Plus all the caves. and a few beaches