SE Please implement a Chonoscroll/PLEX system in FFXIV: ARR

[Shougun]

you offend easily, mate

Like glass.

Again, you seem to identify your opinion with that of the majority. Looks like selective reading to me.

Somethings are safe to assume - hate on pay to win is one of them. Like hate on the random number generator.

Which is equivalent to beating them if that offer reduces their influence on the market.

If increasing RMT demand was your goal. Sure.

Looks like it didn't work so far. "RMT Still exist". If you apply this concept to dismiss PLEX, then you apply it to every measure that results inN "RMT still exists"

You will never be rid of it - but without supporting it in any fashion and only demoting it you will have a real effect on demand, unlike increasing the demand.

Actually they understand the system much better than you do, mostly because a lot of them tried games that include it, and have seen its effects first hand, like I did, and you don't seem to have.

I've played the system, I get it.

Too bad that that "flat out" description is intentionally misleading. If you gave that "flat out" description on TERA and on EVE, they'd probably agree. But they know that the system doesn't match that misleading description, so they accepted it. All it would take is for yoshida to explain it in detail, and most would accept it, exactly like it happened elsewhere.

If there was a vote to add the system then so be it - but NEVER in its description should it say "preventive measures aganist RMT" as it promotes RMT.

MMORPG players are MMORPG players. If you think that the few super-hardcore FFXI players that never played anything else have any numbers to be any majority anywhere, i see a rather large delusion there.

Players will deal with shit just like humans will deal with shit for so long - its just not best to push their shit buttons.. (lots of shit.. lol)

SE has little room to push the buttons as it already is running on some bad ice.

Considering that I work in the industry, I feel rather confident in saying that I know what the industry standard is quite a tad better than you do

Considering that I breath the game industry in all (as much as I can humanly) aspects of its design I would disagree. Pay to win is for a game advantage - it doesn't have to be a game exclusive advantage like armor that only you can buy, though p2w does include that case.

You have narrowed the definition too far.

[Abriael]

Like glass.

Noticeable.

Somethings are safe to assume - hate on pay to win is one of them. Like hate on the random number generator.

Interesting, since on TERA people hate the random number generator like smoke in the eyes, but don't hate chronoscrolls. As a matter of fact, they're well loved.

If increasing RMT demand was your goal. Sure.

No. Reducing the influence of RMT on the market was. And it has been achieved elsewhere. It can be achieved here if well implemented.

You will never be rid of it - but without supporting it in any fashion and only demoting it you will have a real effect on demand, unlike increasing the demand.

You telling it increases the demand based on absurd concepts that have nothing to do with economy and reality doesn't make it so.

Point stands though. if "RMT is still there" is a valid argument to dismiss PLEX, it's a valid argument to dismiss everything that results in it.

I've played the system, I get it.

Looking at how you fail to understand it, I doubt it.

If there was a vote to add the system then so be it - but NEVER in its description should it say "preventive measures aganist RMT" as it promotes RMT.

You saying it does doesn't make it true. i'm quite sure the devs of two different MMORPG knows if it does quite a lot better than you (or me, mind you).

Players will deal with shit just like humans will deal with shit for so long - its just not best to push their shit buttons.. (lots of shit.. lol)

They aren't just "dealing with it", they like it a lot. The same would quite probably happen here. Besides the fact that it combats RMT, people love convenient things, and this system is very convenient.

Considering that I breath the game industry in all aspects of its design I would disagree.

Being a gamer doesn't give you as much knowledge of the industry as a professional, regardless of your lung capacity.

Ask any MMORPG developer what "pay to win" is, and they'll repeat the definition I gace verbatim or almost. That's because that's exactly what I'm doing with the definition I heard from every single one of them I ever talked to. And they're many.

[Shougun]

skipping because my opinion hasn't changed and neither has yours lol


Being a gamer doesn't give you as much knowledge of the industry as a professional, regardless of your lung capacity.

I am a modder and have a small indie project going on (its cute and takes so much damn time >.> lol). But beyond that I read professional articles and frequent books written by those who have been in key industry roles before.

It is not safe to assume your knowledge is unique to the forums, or the just job position.

Maybe we will run again if Yoshi starts talking about new payment systems but until then we just spent a good few pages talking about the same things over and over.. lol

[Abriael]

I am a modder and have a small indie project going on (its cute and takes so much damn time >.> lol). But beyond that I read professional articles and frequent books written by those who have been in key industry roles before.

Reading articles and being a modder (mind you, I'm a modder too as a hobby, but that's not of much consequence) or a budding indie (best wishes on that) don't exactly give much experience in the industry.

It's a common misconception between gamers to think that such experiences go any deep under the crust on the industry, and that's why so many have that "i know better than a developer!" attitude that developers hate with their whole guts.

This is a funny discussion, but you really need to realize that the industry is moving and evolving, and it's doing so very, very fast. Pay to Play developers can't avoid considering alternative routes to pure pay to play, unless they want to go fully hybrid very soon after release.

The fact that Yoshida doesn't discount other business models now that the game hasn't even launched yet should give you some very strong hints. And if you think that this system is any worse (even considering your own definition of Pay to Win) of going hybrid... well...

[Shougun]

Reading articles and being a modder (mind you, I'm a modder too as a hobby, but that's not of much consequence) or a budding indie (best wishes on that) don't exactly give much experience in the industry.

Thanks - not really looking for a sell on this one as much as personal fun and practice. Better designs later when they are feasible for my programming skills.. Moar 3d tricks required lol

It's a common misconception between gamers to think that such experiences go any deep under the crust on the industry, and that's why so many have that "i know better than a developer!" attitude that developers hate with their whole guts.

That is annoying in any field lol

This is a funny discussion, but you really need to realize that the industry is moving and evolving, and it's doing so very, very fast. Pay to Play developers can't avoid considering alternative routes to pure pay to play, unless they want to go fully hybrid very soon after release.

I did just say I am following the Industry very closely, I know what is up and what is down.

P2P method is not dead - it is just not the only method now. When everyone went p2p because thats all they knew now that have the option to pick what is best for them - that doesn't mean p2p is dead because people are experimenting and or picking a model best suited for themselves. Its like those silly articles going on about the console, or the PC as dead mediums. .. lol...

The fact that Yoshida doesn't discount other business models now that the game hasn't even launched yet should give you some very strong hints. And if you think that this system is any worse (even considering your own definition of Pay to Win) of going hybrid... well...

He should consider all the avenues - I however do not want to play an RMT supportive game. Just like some people dont like playing FPS, my personal preference. So as he considers them I will ensure correct representation of and as well opposition to RMT supportive methods.

[Abriael]

I did just say I am following the Industry very closely, I know what is up and what is down.

From the point of view of a single gamer. That's not what we're talking about here.

P2P method is not dead

Pure hardcore P2P pretty much is, as much as it pains me to admit it because I prefer it a LOT to F2P or full hybrid. Games simply can't hold indefinitely with it. It may be a good starting point, but with the speed at which the industry slaps out new games that attract the customerbase from the older games, developers are faced with the need to find ways to allow players to keep their account active easier. Which PLEX/Chronoscrolls do very efficiently.

They're the best alternative to going hybrid developers have at the moment.

The only game that can truly prosper for a long time with that system (for now) is wow. and only because it has a very large pool of pre-existing users, that will last longer despite being constantly eroded. In addition to wow, other games that have a VERY fossilized userbase can kind of trudge with it. But ARR won't most probably be part of that group.

2013 is NOT a small year for MMORPGs. ARR will have to compete with very strong titles that will probably hit after it. They're a danger SE better prepare against as solidly as possible.

He should consider all the avenues - I however do not want to play an RMT supportive game. Just like some people dont like playing FPS, my personal preference. So as he considers them I will ensure correct representation of and as well opposition to RMT supportive methods.

Unfortunately your extremist position does the opposite of that, as you're misrepresenting the system and its effects (that have already been verified and tested elsewhere) full force.

Preconceptions are a bad thing when considering new options.