SE Please implement a Chonoscroll/PLEX system in FFXIV: ARR

[Shougun]

Eh, unfortunately not so.

I have more money than you. Buy two computers. Got a collector's edition (that included two accounts). Pay the monthly fee for two accounts.
You have less money than me. Only one computer. Standard edition. Pay the monthly for only one account.

I can multibox, levelinking my two characters (which multiplies earnings by two) with one on tow. Use them for spiritbond, and when i'm out having fun i keep one crafting all the time making millions of gil (I know several people that do this, it' VERY easy with the new crafting, as it takes only a click every two seconds).

I have a very sizable advantage over you by spending more money on the game. By your definition, this is pay to win. Ergo FFXIV (and every MMO in which multiboxing is possible) is pay to win.

You know in order to do the work in a dual box you have to work on that mule right? So if you want to PL yourself you have to first level the other character.

That being said I think this is the best thing I've read so far. It isnt a direct p2w, but it does seem to be an indirect system.

Perhaps I should argue against direct p2w systems need to gtfo. I'll think about that dual box in application of indirect p2w.

A person with more money ALWAYS has ways to get ahead in every MMORPG. What distinguishes pay to win is when the other person has no way to catch up. For instance when the developer sells boosters that increase the attack power of the one that uses them.

That's what distinguishes an advantage from an unfair advantage.

No, a p2w system doesnt mean there is no way to catch up. A p2w system only means that by using real money you can obtain a competitive advantage. By having more gil I can buy better gear and therefore use that better gear to get better dungeon content and get better gear and more levels and more gil - it is a competitive advantage to acquire gil.

[Abriael]

You know in order to do the work in a dual box you have to work on that mule right? So if you want to PL yourself you have to first level the other character.

No need if you started the game by doing that. It's actually very direct. And there are other ways to advantage yourself with money.

Do you have cable internet? I have just a DLS. You'll have better response times than I do. You're paying to win.

Better PC? You have better framerate. Again, your response times will be better. You're paying to win.

Better monitor with less picture lag? Same as above.

Better keyboard with a better response lag? Guess what?

I could go on with several examples. Real money affects our ability to get by in MMORPGs in several ways. Some are just more evident than others.

No, a p2w system doesnt mean there is no way to catch up. A p2w system only means that by using real money you can obtain a competitive advantage. By having more gil I can buy better gear and therefore use that better gear to get better dungeon content and get better gear and more levels and more gil - it is a competitive advantage to acquire gil.

The same can be achieved by dualboxing. Mind you, a much larger effect can be achieved with dualboxing, since, if they were to implement the TERA system, you can only sell two scrolls every week, while by dualboxing you can get a whole ton of gil. A friend made about 30 million in the last three days to set aside for getting a house in ARR.

Therefore, by your definition, every MMO is pay to win one way or the other. Which is why the definition is used incorrectly.

PS: Actually (just for the sake of discussion) this game has some very limited *actual* pay to win feature even by the strict definition. The Hermes Shoes are one. I paid to reactivate my FFXI account prior to release to get them. They give me the ability to run faster for 30 minutes, an ability that no one that didn't pay could match. THAT is pay to win, even if very limited.

[Shougun]

No need if you started the game by doing that. It's actually very direct. And there are other ways to advantage yourself with money.

Do you have cable internet? I have just a DLS. You'll have better response times than I do. You're paying to win.

Better PC? You have better framerate. Again, your response times will be better. You're paying to win.

Better monitor with less picture lag? Same as above.

Better keyboard with a better response lag? Guess what?

I could go on with several examples. Real money affects our ability to get by in MMORPGs in several ways. Some are just more evident than others.



The same can be achieved by dualboxing. Mind you, a much larger effect can be achieved with dualboxing, since, if they were to implement the TERA system, you can only sell two scrolls every week, while by dualboxing you can get a whole ton of gil. A friend made about 30 million in the last three days to set aside for getting a house in ARR.

Therefore, by your definition, every MMO is pay to win one way or the other. Which is why the definition is used incorrectly.

PS: Actually (just for the sake of discussion) this game has some very limited *actual* pay to win feature even by the strict definition. The Hermes Shoes are one. I paid to reactivate my FFXI account prior to release to get them. They give me the ability to run faster for 30 minutes, an ability that no one that didn't pay could match. THAT is pay to win, even if very limited.

p2w refers to what the company does not what the outside world does. Hurricane hit your house, you didnt pay to live in a hotel and continue playing BOOM GAME IS P2W.. no thats not how it works.

What is designed into the system that allows cash to acquire an advantage in game.

That being said I feel you dont care that this plex system adds benefit to those with money - you just care to fight for the system. Most of your arguments consist of it already exists so lets just do it more.

(You are pushing off that topic).

[Abriael]

p2w refers to what the company does not what the outside world does.

That's a rather artificial distinction.

That being said I feel you dont care that this plex system adds benefit to those with money - you just care to fight for the system.

Yep, you're right. I don't care. The reason why I don't care is because it also advantages those without money (or better, it allows them to help each other), and because it helps the game retain subscriptions, that is a *large* problem for P2P games nowadays, and helps fighting RMT firms (that are another large problem), without affecting anyone's experience of the game negatively (unless one is simply jaelous of those that have more, but that's his problem, not the problem of the game).

I'm glad that Yoshida-san considers it interesting, because it tells me that this game is led by an individual with an open mind, which multiplies the chances of success of ARR. Whether it'll be implemented in the future or not.

[Shougun]

That's a rather artificial distinction.

The game is the game, we are talking about the game not the whole world. It is hardily artificial.

Yep, you're right. I don't care. The reason why I don't care is because it also advantages those without money (or better, it allows them to help each other), and because it helps the game retain subscriptions, that is a *large* problem for P2P games nowadays, and helps fighting RMT firms (that are another large problem), without affecting anyone's experience of the game negatively (unless one is simply jaelous of those that have more, but that's his problem, not the problem of the game).

The plex system lets people who would never pay monthly but have loads of ass sitting time the ability to play. Sure, I agree. I am saying I dont care about that person. I like this system. SE can make money p2p, make updates - and I can play knowing that everyone playing is on equal ground (at least directly and legally).

[Abriael]

and I can play knowing that everyone is on equal ground (at least directly).

Good that you can, considering that this fabled equal ground is already just an illusion.

[Shougun]

Good that you can, considering that equal ground is already just an illusion.