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  1. #391
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    Jun 2011
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    16
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    In all cases i don't like the fact to be able to buy stuff or anything in a game with real money XD
    Even if that ment a person who had spent real money but through legit means then bought stuff from you which let you get what you wanted instead of possibly having to wait longer.
    (0)

  2. #392
    Player
    Abriael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    4,821
    Character
    Abriael Rosen
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I know it but if we can buy a month sub item in game for 2M fixed by RMTs or for 4M fixed by players, only 2M items will be sold. Or maybe i haven't understood what it has been said in previous pages (english isn't my 1st language)
    Yeah. RMT engaging in this kind of commerce would have to keep to the market price (effectively earning nothing), or undercut themselves, which would lower their profit instead of generating it.

    In all cases i don't like the fact to be able to buy stuff or anything in a game with real money XD
    Real money already affects the game, whether we want it or not.
    (0)

  3. #393
    Player
    A_Hortensia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    155
    Character
    Arista Hortensia
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Abriael View Post
    Real money already affects the game, whether we want it or not.
    Except it doesn't.
    (4)

  4. #394
    Player

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    127
    Quote Originally Posted by Abriael View Post
    You seem to think that demolishing your arguments somehow equates to "trolling". Hint for you. It doesn't.



    Oversimplifying and extremizing someone's points because you can't counter his original ones is called "strawman argument". Google it. Second hint: It doesn't help your side.



    Refuting your points (which aren't "facts" by any stretch of the imagination) doesn't equate to ignoring them, and even less to "lying".
    Wasn't simplifying or extremizing your arguments, I was summarizing.

    Example: You're saying things like "you should study the economy" "this isn't rocket science", your responses are basically telling people they're stupid.



    and as far as the lying thing goes, basically your first 3 points in the very first post are lies.

    "1: It's basically the most socially balanced way to charge for a MMORPG." You're saying some people should pay for other people, how is that balanced at all much less the most balanced way?

    "2: The only ones that lose out from this arrangement are the gilsellers" The people who really lose out here are people who don't have a lot of money and can't sell play time.

    "3: It's not (as some erroneously think) a cause of inflation, as no gil is actually inserted into the market. It causes no inflation in the games where it's implemented." This is really stretching the truth as it doesn't look at the whole picture.

    Like I said earlier, it may not add to inflation but it concentrates the money (just like what has happened to the real economy) The same amount of money is still there but it's sucked out of normal people and then horded by a small %. What happens now is when you go to buy mind materia it used to cost 20k but now it's 200k and your rate of income hasn't increased.




    Only 2 people benefit from this idea, people who want to play for free and people who want to dominate without actually doing anything. Everybody else loses out.

    And really dude, maybe if you actually played the game you'd be happier with the system in place. Member on the forums since march 2011 and you have over 2k posts but only 2 classes at 50? Seriously dude?
    (4)

  5. #395
    Player
    Zantetsuken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,979
    Character
    Siorai Aduaidh
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    This thread has now received enough attention that it should get consideration by the devs.

    But I can't imagine that anyone is being convinced by arguments on either side after almost 400 posts. :/

    Best just wait and see...

    (I'll assume this idea was added to the question forum for the producer live letter IV)
    (0)

  6. #396
    Player
    Abriael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    4,821
    Character
    Abriael Rosen
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by A_Hortensia View Post
    Except it doesn't.
    Really? Have you found the magical way to play without it?

    Quote Originally Posted by ArnoMorley View Post
    Wasn't simplifying or extremizing your arguments, I was summarizing.
    No, you were simplifying and extremizing.

    Example: You're saying things like "you should study the economy" "this isn't rocket science", your responses are basically telling people they're stupid.
    Lacking a proper education and experience in economical subjects =/= Stupid. Here's another example in which you're extremizing.

    and as far as the lying thing goes, basically your first 3 points in the very first post are lies.
    No, they're points you disagree with, which is, unfortunately for you, very different from a lie. More extremizing.

    "1: It's basically the most socially balanced way to charge for a MMORPG." You're saying some people should pay for other people, how is that balanced at all much less the most balanced way?
    It's SOCIALLY balanced. Meaning that people can play regardless of their real life income, and benefit each other in the process.

    If X Doesn't have enough real life income to play, but has enough time, he can pay with gil to Y, that has enough real life income, but not enough time. Both can play. Both benefit from each other.

    "2: The only ones that lose out from this arrangement are the gilsellers" The people who really lose out here are people who don't have a lot of money and can't sell play time.
    They lose nothing. Not being able to sell play time doesn't mean in any way that they can't gather gil in the usual way. You implying that they lose something would mean that their usual way of making gil would be taken away, which simply isn't true.
    As a matter of fact, they gain from it, as they now have the option to play entirely for free if they so wish.

    "3: It's not (as some erroneously think) a cause of inflation, as no gil is actually inserted into the market. It causes no inflation in the games where it's implemented." This is really stretching the truth as it doesn't look at the whole picture.
    No, It's not. As a matter of fact it didn't cause any inflation in the games in which it's implemented, and it doesn't have the *possibility* to cause inflation, as it doesn't insert any currency in the market. Considering taxes it *removes* currency from the market, acting as a further gil sink.

    Like I said earlier, it may not add to inflation but it concentrates the money (just like what has happened to the real economy) The same amount of money is still there but it's sucked out of normal people and then horded by a small %. What happens now is when you go to buy mind materia it used to cost 20k but now it's 200k and your rate of income hasn't increased.
    It's not in any way "sucked" away from anyone. It's an entirely optional system. If you don't want to use it, no one "sucks" money away from you.

    With the proper limits in place, the purchase power of individuals can't grow over levels in which isn't manageable.

    Examples are already in place. The system already works elsewhere, without causing inflation. Ergo, you're basing your assumptions over nothing.

    Only 2 people benefit from this idea, people who want to play for free and people who want to dominate without actually doing anything. Everybody else loses out.
    False. As already demonstrated. No normal way of making gil is removed from the game. Therefore, no one loses anthing.

    And really dude, maybe if you actually played the game you'd be happier with the system in place. Member on the forums since march 2011 and you have over 2k posts but only 2 classes at 50? Seriously dude?
    Some people have a real life and other interests. You making assumptions about someone you know nothing of (I played the game plenty. Looking at your join date, more than you did. The difference is that I mostly played when powerleveling and easy progression weren't rampant like they have been recently, but you wouldn't know, since you're relatively new) brings no points to your argument. It only makes you look like your arguments are too weak to sustain themselves without personal remarks. Not surprising since they are.
    (3)
    Last edited by Abriael; 11-07-2012 at 06:23 AM.

  7. #397
    Player
    debola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    172
    Character
    Leo Vanhalen
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Abriael View Post
    Really? Have you found the magical way to play without it?
    Yh. rl money doesnt affect the game in any way atm. what way do u think it does?. #justasking
    (0)

  8. #398
    Player
    Abriael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    4,821
    Character
    Abriael Rosen
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by debola View Post
    Yh. rl money doesnt affect the game in any way atm. what way do u think it does?. #justasking
    You need it to play the game. It affects it at the most basic and radical level.

    Without even mentioning the fact that gilselling is a reality, and SE didn't manage to stamp it out in anyway, so even on that level, it already affects the game.

    Furthermore, people that have more money can easily multibox using two accounts (I know several that do), in many cases doubling their gil income, or keeping an account to craft all the time and make millions while they play and enjoy adventuring content on the second.

    It's even easier now that they removed the expiration timer from crafting, requiring very little attention and a click every few seconds.

    Hell, Square Enix themselves provided those that have more money to get a collectior's edition with two nice accounts ready to be multiboxed.
    (1)
    Last edited by Abriael; 11-07-2012 at 06:39 AM.

  9. #399
    Player
    A_Hortensia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    155
    Character
    Arista Hortensia
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Abriael View Post
    You need it to play the game. It affects it at the most basic and radical level.
    Oh, paying for service is effecting the in-game on a radical level?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abriael View Post
    Really? Have you found the magical way to play without it?
    Yes, I found a magical way to play SE's games without giving them money.
    Oh wait, no I haven't because I'm not a wizard and I actually want to pay the company for their product.

    Also; dual boxing doesn't magically double your profits.
    Unless you're using a bot, you're only using one character at a time.

    This individual is paying 2 subscriptions, (kind of like your idea), except he's actually playing the game to get gil.
    (1)

  10. #400
    Player
    axemtitanium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    991
    Character
    Titania Basilikos
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ArnoMorley View Post
    So when wealthier people can instantly have the most gil simply because they can buy more "chronoscrolls" that's not a problem? It's ridiculous and unfair on every level, basically just because somebody's parents are well off a bunch of spoiled children are going to be walking around with triple/quadruple melds.
    If someone were to buy a bunch of chronoscrolls/PLEX at once and tried to sell them all (assuming there are no limits on the number you can purchase), he would drive down the market price of the items and get less money. Just like real life, game economies and prices fluctuate based on supply and demand.

    Edit: if you think it won't drive up inflation you're mistaken, it's not that gil is added it's that gil becomes concentrated, if I suddenly have a billion gil and want to x4 meld gear then I could buy everything up and suddenly none of the normal players can afford the gear.
    If you follow this transaction to its conclusion, this player's billion gil has just been disseminated among the hundreds of producers who he just bought from. This promotes wealth transfer, since there's no point in "concentrating" and accumulating wealth if you're not going to spend it, especially in a video game. Sure, one guy might have 1 billion gil today, but upon spending it, that gil DOESN'T DISAPPEAR. It goes in the hands of the producing members of the economy who will be stimulated to produce more goods and keep the stock on the market wards available.

    Furthermore, this might actually cause deflation as these producers undercut each other to get a slice of the profits from this guy. Also, there's no way to tell if it's one guy or many who is doing the buying since market ward transactions are anonymous. All the producers can see is that there's a large demand for a particular item so they race to craft more of it and price it below the competition to maximize sellthrough.
    (2)
    Last edited by axemtitanium; 11-07-2012 at 06:46 AM.

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