SE Please implement a Chonoscroll/PLEX system in FFXIV: ARR

[ArnoMorley]

As per the graph shown in the OP, no it's not.

Even if some people would still risk their account to buy for them (much less people, since not everyone would eat the risk to be banned provided a legal alternative), they'd be paying much less per gil, which means a large slice of the RMT income going poof.

It's an ironclad equation, and you're very conveniently ignoring the most relevant part of it.

Less customers + Lower price = lower income.

Seriously dude just stop trolling already, basically you started a thread posting only the positives and then you spend the next 40 pages just dismissing the negatives.

Basically your points are:

Money doesn't matter
If we think it matters we're bad people
If we take pride in achievement we're bad people
It stops RMT (when it doesn't)
You people are stupid!

Lying and ignoring facts doesn't make certain ideas good ones, I know it's an election year so there's a lot of it going around but really enough is enough.

[Abriael]

Seriously dude just stop trolling already, basically you started a thread posting only the positives and then you spend the next 40 pages just dismissing the negatives.

You seem to think that demolishing your arguments somehow equates to "trolling". Hint for you. It doesn't.

Basically your points are:

Oversimplifying and extremizing someone's points because you can't counter his original ones is called "strawman argument". Google it. Second hint: It doesn't help your side.

Lying and ignoring facts doesn't make certain ideas good ones, I know it's an election year so there's a lot of it going around but really enough is enough.

Refuting your points (which aren't "facts" by any stretch of the imagination) doesn't equate to ignoring them, and even less to "lying".

Just to add this example:
Players selling a 1 months sub for 2mil gil.
RMT selling 2mil gil for 7.99.
One thing that wont change is that the sub fee wont ever change so RMT will always have the advantage of getting people to buy gil instead of this item.

Sorry but that's not how it works.

First of all, price is decided by the players according to offer and demand. This means that if RMT sells 2 million gil for 7.99, players will simply sell the item for four million, or whatever price is necessary for them to beat the RMT price. They're not forced to set any price, and they're able to actively compete against RMT adjusting prices accordingly.

The more players compete against RMT, the more RMT is forced to lower its prices, even because it can't offer the same degree of security (and if someone cares enough about his character to spend money on it, it's pretty safe to assume that he'd be willing to eat a few dollars loss in order to be sure he doesn't risk a ban). The more RMT lowers its prices, the less profitable their business becomes, until it simply becomes unprofitable, or they don't have enough budget to support enough workforce to negatively influence the economy.

You're seeing the market as something fixed. It isn't.

[ArnoMorley]

You seem to think that demolishing your arguments somehow equates to "trolling". Hint for you. It doesn't.



Oversimplifying and extremizing someone's points because you can't counter his original ones is called "strawman argument". Google it. Second hint: It doesn't help your side.



Refuting your points (which aren't "facts" by any stretch of the imagination) doesn't equate to ignoring them, and even less to "lying".

Wasn't simplifying or extremizing your arguments, I was summarizing.

Example: You're saying things like "you should study the economy" "this isn't rocket science", your responses are basically telling people they're stupid.



and as far as the lying thing goes, basically your first 3 points in the very first post are lies.

"1: It's basically the most socially balanced way to charge for a MMORPG." You're saying some people should pay for other people, how is that balanced at all much less the most balanced way?

"2: The only ones that lose out from this arrangement are the gilsellers" The people who really lose out here are people who don't have a lot of money and can't sell play time.

"3: It's not (as some erroneously think) a cause of inflation, as no gil is actually inserted into the market. It causes no inflation in the games where it's implemented." This is really stretching the truth as it doesn't look at the whole picture.

Like I said earlier, it may not add to inflation but it concentrates the money (just like what has happened to the real economy) The same amount of money is still there but it's sucked out of normal people and then horded by a small %. What happens now is when you go to buy mind materia it used to cost 20k but now it's 200k and your rate of income hasn't increased.




Only 2 people benefit from this idea, people who want to play for free and people who want to dominate without actually doing anything. Everybody else loses out.

And really dude, maybe if you actually played the game you'd be happier with the system in place. Member on the forums since march 2011 and you have over 2k posts but only 2 classes at 50? Seriously dude?

[Abriael]

Except it doesn't.

Really? Have you found the magical way to play without it?

Wasn't simplifying or extremizing your arguments, I was summarizing.

No, you were simplifying and extremizing.

Example: You're saying things like "you should study the economy" "this isn't rocket science", your responses are basically telling people they're stupid.

Lacking a proper education and experience in economical subjects =/= Stupid. Here's another example in which you're extremizing.

and as far as the lying thing goes, basically your first 3 points in the very first post are lies.

No, they're points you disagree with, which is, unfortunately for you, very different from a lie. More extremizing.

"1: It's basically the most socially balanced way to charge for a MMORPG." You're saying some people should pay for other people, how is that balanced at all much less the most balanced way?

It's SOCIALLY balanced. Meaning that people can play regardless of their real life income, and benefit each other in the process.

If X Doesn't have enough real life income to play, but has enough time, he can pay with gil to Y, that has enough real life income, but not enough time. Both can play. Both benefit from each other.

"2: The only ones that lose out from this arrangement are the gilsellers" The people who really lose out here are people who don't have a lot of money and can't sell play time.

They lose nothing. Not being able to sell play time doesn't mean in any way that they can't gather gil in the usual way. You implying that they lose something would mean that their usual way of making gil would be taken away, which simply isn't true.
As a matter of fact, they gain from it, as they now have the option to play entirely for free if they so wish.

"3: It's not (as some erroneously think) a cause of inflation, as no gil is actually inserted into the market. It causes no inflation in the games where it's implemented." This is really stretching the truth as it doesn't look at the whole picture.

No, It's not. As a matter of fact it didn't cause any inflation in the games in which it's implemented, and it doesn't have the *possibility* to cause inflation, as it doesn't insert any currency in the market. Considering taxes it *removes* currency from the market, acting as a further gil sink.

Like I said earlier, it may not add to inflation but it concentrates the money (just like what has happened to the real economy) The same amount of money is still there but it's sucked out of normal people and then horded by a small %. What happens now is when you go to buy mind materia it used to cost 20k but now it's 200k and your rate of income hasn't increased.

It's not in any way "sucked" away from anyone. It's an entirely optional system. If you don't want to use it, no one "sucks" money away from you.

With the proper limits in place, the purchase power of individuals can't grow over levels in which isn't manageable.

Examples are already in place. The system already works elsewhere, without causing inflation. Ergo, you're basing your assumptions over nothing.

Only 2 people benefit from this idea, people who want to play for free and people who want to dominate without actually doing anything. Everybody else loses out.

False. As already demonstrated. No normal way of making gil is removed from the game. Therefore, no one loses anthing.

And really dude, maybe if you actually played the game you'd be happier with the system in place. Member on the forums since march 2011 and you have over 2k posts but only 2 classes at 50? Seriously dude?

Some people have a real life and other interests. You making assumptions about someone you know nothing of (I played the game plenty. Looking at your join date, more than you did. The difference is that I mostly played when powerleveling and easy progression weren't rampant like they have been recently, but you wouldn't know, since you're relatively new) brings no points to your argument. It only makes you look like your arguments are too weak to sustain themselves without personal remarks. Not surprising since they are.

[debola]

Really? Have you found the magical way to play without it?

Yh. rl money doesnt affect the game in any way atm. what way do u think it does?. #justasking

[Abriael]

Yh. rl money doesnt affect the game in any way atm. what way do u think it does?. #justasking

You need it to play the game. It affects it at the most basic and radical level.

Without even mentioning the fact that gilselling is a reality, and SE didn't manage to stamp it out in anyway, so even on that level, it already affects the game.

Furthermore, people that have more money can easily multibox using two accounts (I know several that do), in many cases doubling their gil income, or keeping an account to craft all the time and make millions while they play and enjoy adventuring content on the second.

It's even easier now that they removed the expiration timer from crafting, requiring very little attention and a click every few seconds.

Hell, Square Enix themselves provided those that have more money to get a collectior's edition with two nice accounts ready to be multiboxed.

[A_Hortensia]

You need it to play the game. It affects it at the most basic and radical level.

Oh, paying for service is effecting the in-game on a radical level?

Really? Have you found the magical way to play without it?

Yes, I found a magical way to play SE's games without giving them money.
Oh wait, no I haven't because I'm not a wizard and I actually want to pay the company for their product.

Also; dual boxing doesn't magically double your profits.
Unless you're using a bot, you're only using one character at a time.

This individual is paying 2 subscriptions, (kind of like your idea), except he's actually playing the game to get gil.

[axemtitanium]

Yh. rl money doesnt affect the game in any way atm. what way do u think it does?. #justasking

Do you remember the Atomos exploit? I believe it should still be fresh in people's minds. All of a sudden, massive amounts of new currency was introduced into the economy because NPCing items CREATES currency. Do you remember what happened to market ward prices right after that? Prices for certain materia doubled because people could afford to spend more on it. This is called inflation and it happens when large amounts of currency are introduced into circulation.

What does this have to do with RMT? Well RMT relies on doing this on a massive scale constantly. The Atomos exploit was nerfed twice in 1 week. While it may seem like the RMT bots aren't harming anyone by running around doing leves, it's actually causing significant damage to the economy. Let's say an average leve has 5k gil as a quest reward. This is money that is introduced into circulation because quest rewards are money from nothing. RMT generally does this in full parties of 8 with leve sharing. So that equals 40k gil per leve. They also get 8 leves per day per character (64 leves per day). That equals 2.56 million created gil every day for free, just from doing leves. This doesn't even take into account revenue generated from item drops and rewards from the leves. And that's just with 8 characters, but typical RMT operations run many more than that. RMT is bad because it relies on methods that introduce new money into circulation, devaluing all other currency in circulation and thus causing inflation. Said another way, RMT is like people exploiting the Atomos drops all day every day since the beginning of the game. If that's not bad the for economy, I don't know what is.

It probably goes without saying, but the reason they do this is because people employ RMT services. It's an undeniable fact. You definitely know at least one person who has purchased gil in this game. That is how real money ties in with a game economy. Conversely, while a PLEX system is technically RMT in that it essentially trades real money for game money, it does so without causing inflation because it does not introduce additional currency into circulation. This method promotes transfer of wealth without the downsides of the above described RMT methods.

I know full well what dual boxing is.
You're still playing the game to progress in the game.



If any individual isn't willing to put forth their money to help put food on the tables of the families of developers who work their asses off making our game fantastic:

Then get the ____ out. We don't want you here.

There are many alternatives, they won't be Final Fantasy though.

The exact same number of subscriptions will be paid for. While it's nice to think that the developers appreciate every player on an individual level, it's really not the case. Square Enix cares about the number of "paid for" subscriptions and that's it. This system might convince an endgame player to continue his subscription by spending gil to make someone else pay for his sub and that's one more $10 fee that SE has retained, rather than letting it lapse.