SE Please implement a Chonoscroll/PLEX system in FFXIV: ARR

[Applesnap]

I'll stand on the side of those saying confidently, "No thanks. We don't want this in FFXIV."

It may work well for other games, but it won't work well in FFXIV for many reasons. One is, SE need the funds from the subscriptions at the game's launch to float happily and be able to pay costs. After such a terrible start with v1, I don't know how anyone can not realise the significant importance of this fact. They lost a lot of money and need to recoup costs, get subscription numbers up and drum up interest for new players. You might argue they'd get the funds eventually, but until all the transactions are sorted out ... the money technically doesn't exist. "Free" subscription fees certainly don't help here either.

After seeing the debacle with Atomos gil-hoarding and selling what is effectively a win on certain fights (Garuda, Rivenroad - Hard), I have no desire to see these people earn even more gil and certainly not real-life money. Was a guy in a social ls I was part of. Bragged about having over 90m gil from Atomos event alone, his attitude became very ignorant and egotistic against those who had less money. He would throw gil at materia, getting people to do things in-game for him, paying for NM kills; basically making himself better geared than others. I have absolutely no desire to see this type of behaviour become even more common. You've all seen how an over-saturation of gil raises prices in general, because sellers start to get greedy and the rich are too rich to care.

It also costs money to design and introduce a system like this, and right now, SE most likely have neither the resources or the desire to introduce it. Let's not try and overcomplicate things. Some of us won't be convinced however much others think it works in other games, and we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Aenarion]

It may work well for other games, but it won't work well in FFXIV for many reasons. One is, SE need the funds from the subscriptions at the game's launch to float happily and be able to pay costs. After such a terrible start with v1, I don't know how anyone can not realise the significant importance of this fact. They lost a lot of money and need to recoup costs, get subscription numbers up and drum up interest for new players. You might argue they'd get the funds eventually, but until all the transactions are sorted out ... the money technically doesn't exist. "Free" subscription fees certainly don't help here either.

Huh? you're not making sense here. The PLEX system does not REPLACE subs, it exists in tandem WITH subs. PLEX doesn't create "free" subscriptions that the devs have to deal with, it is actually exactly the reverse - the PLEX system gives the dev money for subscriptions that doesn't even exist yet, as a PLEX is in effect a promissory note guaranteeing future service.

This right here tells me you actually have no idea how the system functions even on a basic level.

After seeing the debacle with Atomos gil-hoarding and selling what is effectively a win on certain fights (Garuda, Rivenroad - Hard), I have no desire to see these people earn even more gil and certainly not real-life money.

Huh? The PLEX system does NOT allow conversion of gil into RL money, so how will those players earn RL money through the PLEX system?

Oh right, they can't

Again, you show a complete lack of understanding of the system.

You've all seen how an over-saturation of gil raises prices in general, because sellers start to get greedy and the rich are too rich to care.

Except a PLEX system doesn't saturate gil, as it doesn't create a single gil - yes, the PLEX system injects less currency into the in-game economy than if you go out and killed a lv.10 human mob.

I'd drop the line about you having no clue about the system here, but it's starting to get repetitive.

we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Of course, except one side has logical reasoning, while the other side is doing nothing more than "LALALALALA I can't hear you lolololol"

Not saying FF14 will or even should use the PLEX system, but if you're going to debate the issue, at least understand what you're debating against.

[debola]

Of course, except one side has logical reasoning, while the other side is doing nothing more than "LALALALALA I can't hear you lolololol"

Not saying FF14 will or even should use the PLEX system, but if you're going to debate the issue, at least understand what you're debating against.

THe opposing side isn't lalala'ing. We do know what were debating against nd if you read thru this you'd see the many reasons that have been brought up.

[Aenarion]

THe opposing side isn't lalala'ing. We do know what were debating against nd if you read thru this you'd see the many reasons that have been brought up.

Most of the arguments I've seen are against RMT/F2P cash shops/what people THINK the PLEX system is.

I've yet to see someone debating the pros/cons of that system who actually understands what that system is and what it actually does in practice. Though I have to admit I haven't read every single posts in this thread, but that's my impression from the pages that I have read.

[Applesnap]

Not saying FF14 will or even should use the PLEX system, but if you're going to debate the issue, at least understand what you're debating against.

Sure, Aenarion. As long as you understand that when someone opposes your idea, you respect their opinions and don't argue each and every one of them down.

[Aenarion]

Sure, Aenarion. As long as you understand that when someone opposes your idea, you respect their opinions and don't argue each and every one of them down.

I respect your right to your own opinions, as everyone is entitled to their own.

However, you're not entitled to your own fact, and I have every right to tear down the posts that are factually incorrect.

[Applesnap]

I respect your right to your own opinions, as everyone is entitled to their own.

However, you're not entitled to your own fact, and I have every right to tear down the posts that are factually incorrect.

Just...stop...arguing everyone down. I'm done here. Not going to internet-argue with people who think they are constantly right.

[Aenarion]

Interesting thread. 2 questions for those in favor:

1. Wouldn't this allow RMT to remove their own subscription costs, since they will clearly have gil to spend on these tokens? While I can see decreased demand for RMT gil as a function of this system, I am guessing RMT has decreased costs as well.

Naturally, though the final effect is probably a net negative for RMT operations, as other operating costs such as employee, equipment, electricity etc. cannot be negated this way, while the PLEX system sets an artificial price ceiling on what they can charge for their currencies.

2. What's to stop RMT from cornering the market in these tokens? Can they not be resold? I'd think that RMT, with unlimited (hypothetically) gil, would almost be forced to buy all tokens and then resell them at the same rate they sell directly. Is that observed in other games?

The supply of those PLEX/Token is unlimited, as long as there are people willing to pay the devs real money in exchange for them. Buying all the ones one the market and reselling (a typical market manipulation technique) may give them some profit boost in the short term (and carries the risk for losses should the bubble implode while they still holds stock), it's an unsustainable cycle as higher in-game price for PLEX only serves to incentivize others to purchase PLEX from the devs and sell for ingame currency, creating additional supplies (in most cases, oversupply) that can only create a bubble that will inevitably burst, as demands for PLEX goes down as price goes up.

Volume is a huge factor here. In Eve the daily trade volume of PLEX is immense (approx. $45,000 to $60,000+ USD worth in the central market hub alone), it's really beyond the capability of any one entity to have anything more than a temporary effect on PLEX price, much less corner its market. As far as the market is concerned, think of PLEX more as a commodities like stocks or gold. Many people uses PLEX as hedge against inflation, and any abnormal price spike is only going to cause the stockholders to release their holdings to make some easy profits.

Would this happen in FF14? it's hard to say, as Eve has one of the largest, most robust and complicated economy/market system in any MMO, so it behaves differently than your typical MMO economy does.

Just...stop...arguing everyone down. I'm done here. Not going to internet-argue with people who think they are constantly right.

LOL

This has nothing to do with whether I think I'm right or not. You stated your arguments, which I countered with my own along with the reasons to show that you statements were in fact incorrect, and that's somehow "arguing people down", whatever that even means. This is a forum, it's used to debate stuff, it's not just used for circle-jerks or undeserved mob pilling-ons like you were doing, which ironically you seem to have no problem with.

The best part of all this? you didn't even once try to actually debate the points I raised, instead immediately resort to "omg you disagreed with me you're a big meanie!!!!11!!"

[GodseijuroHiko]

Sure, Aenarion. As long as you understand that when someone opposes your idea, you respect their opinions and don't argue each and every one of them down.

So you wan't him to just agree with you. Got it.