SE Please implement a Chonoscroll/PLEX system in FFXIV: ARR

[Darkschnaider]

Upon imposing that system or the free to play in FFXIV, I promise fails to play, why?, Easy. Throughout my life I have played very many MMO and I think I can say that one of the things that sets the FF, both the 11 and the 14, is the people who play. Generally, it is respectful to help people etc ... people I call good players. Let's say that the monthly added to the difficulty of the game makes people more empathetic playing it. If that system is now established or free to play, the game automatically access is out of control and began to lose value. I know I'm messing but just one example. If you go to a club with free admission you will abide there may be fights, drunks, brats etc ... however if a nightclub with Fee you know that the environment will be quieter and will have the right to demand quality. Other than that the system that monthly purchase more facilities will be giving even the gil sellers.

Sorry That text was traslator Powered By Google

[debola]

Very well said!

Like I said earlier, lets consider how this would affect THIS game.

Historically speaking, things have a hand of getting exploited in ffxiv, especially where gil is concerned, which is why the very possibility of implementing this scares me. I dont how things worked on other servers but I havent forgotten what happened on gugnir when atomos first popped up, b4 SE realized and nerfed him........

[Quesse]

I've read through all the posts and I'm strongly against this.

Forget about how this affects other games. lets consider how this would affect ffxiv.
You're proposing to allow a system where people can purchase items with irl money and sell in game for gil. This would allow players to obtain gil without doing any work.

Dude put it quite nicely. a new player on day one could just buy a shit ton of it and get millions of gil. Highly unfair to pple who have spent weeks levelling their craft nd gathering jobs to get money.

Also. you tried countering an argument about being able to purchase gear by saying that in ARR, most of the best gear would be untradeable. Well, as almost all meldable gear are tradeable then no, that wont be the case.

Furthermore buying gear isnt the only way the so called "New rich player" would be able to cheat the game. You could use all the gil you got with irl money to get people to power level you and do a host of other things in exchange for gil.

It hasnt be so long since the last save so im sure you all wont have forgotten about how so many endgame linkshells on all servers were selling "White raven wins" for exorbitant amounts of gil. That would be an example of how a player who could trade irl money for gil would have an unfair advantage over a dedicated player.

Agreed. RMT or no RMT, SE does not allow buying gil for RL money. For good reason. This post is like arguing since some people in the USA smoke crack, might as well make it legal so they can get less-expensive clean crack.
Being able to buy gil period hurts the game, especially for the reasons listed above. I don't want a legitimate way or an illegitimate way to buy gil. Keep it out of FFXIV altogether.

[Cynthis]

NOTE: This post is entirely hypothetical- I do not condone, and I am not encouraging the acts in any way- It is merely to make a point.

These numbers are also entirely not to scale. Merely to be used as an example:

Scenario 1: Buyable, tradeable Crysta


Scenario 1: True RMT


Both scenarios, at face value, have the potential free market appeal to them, one managed more by the present gil value of a subscription, the other by the dollar value of gil.

True RMT has an additional factor, that of encouraging gilsellers to use players and accounts by "camping" areas designed to be shared for profit. This issue, however, is largely preventable in present MMO game design, by isolating the activities between players, such as the leve system or a large selection of camps with similaly valued drops.

Apart from the above factor, very little is different between the two concepts. The above differences certainly cannot be the only reason why RMT is such a stigma, so I ask you what you think makes RMT so bad, and this so good? Please be specific.

As I see it the thought is that RMTs don't legitimately "play" the game. They use bots or other systems to make gil which causes inflation after they sell it and it is spent by the buyers. The thought is that in a system like the one proposed, people who play a lot and have more gil than they really know what to do with anyway can use some of that gil to essentially pay for their subscription. Of course this assumes that the gil legitimate players are holding would at some point be spent anyway but is now only being redistributed. I think that is a reasonable assumption since in the long run, if people feel there is nothing in the game to spend gil on then the game is probably in serious trouble because of a lack of content.

People with more money than time who really need the gil since they have little time to farm for gil can get that gil from these players instead of from RMTs. The difference being that there would be lower inflation and 2 different types of legitimate players would both be happier and continue to play.

[Duuude007]

Give them an inch, they will demand a mile. This is a slippery slope to the instant gratification mmo clones you find everywhere. I am glad others are equally skeptical.

Some arguments have been well researched, which I respect, however I will continue to show disapproval for anything that is player driven which outside of SE's design alters the game experience for the have's over the have-not's.

[debola]

Give them an inch, they will demand a mile. This is a slippery slope to the instant gratification mmo clones you find everywhere. I am glad others are equally skeptical.

Some arguments have been well researched, which I respect, however I will continue to show disapproval for anything that is player driven which outside of SE's design alters the game experience for the have's over the have-not's.

....../nod

[mbncd]

I've only come across this system once before, in a free text based game where donating gives a month of benefits that have everyone either donating themselves or using donator packs (aka DP's) that others have bought and sold to them. There is no RMT'ing in this game by the way, aside from buying the DP's from the creator of the game. In that game, I've seen a few typical observations from the buying and selling of DP's.

Special events like holidays spur a great jump in purchases because the items make great gifts. I buy from the site at least a dozen $5 DP's every Xmas for presents for friends, and another dozen to give away in community based competitions. I don't buy those 24+ DP's from other players but rather from the site itself. Each recipient only gets 1 DP from me and they either use it themselves or they sell it to other players for a handy 15-20mil of in game currency. To put that into perspective, rich players gamble 25 billion in game currency on big events while poor players tend to live in houses that cost about 3-5mil. This big splurge of mine happens once a year and I know many others do the same. Throughout the rest of the year, only about as many packs as are going to be directly used, are actually bought.

There are those who have never bought a DP for real money but do regularly buy them from other players using in game currency. A lot of people pay for donator privileges this way so the market flows quite freely in that regard. That is especially the case for children and others who don't have the real life money (or who don't believe in using real life money on a game) but are serious players of the game and thus can easily afford to play with in game currency that way. Casual players are more likely to throw the $5 at the site for their DP than the average 15-20mil for a DP.

Those who buy DP's in bulk (aside from special occasions) tend to fall into two categories: the professional reseller and the get rich quick casual. The professional reseller will typically buy DP's regularly but not in large quantities, attempting to stop the supply from flowing too loosely (which lowers the value of the item and thus lowers their profit) between themselves and the DP's bought by others. They are generally hard working players who see DP's as pocket money on the side and by no means see it (or try to use it) as a main source of income.

The get rich quick casual tends to not understand any of what the others do, other than buying this item with real cash = in game profit, and doing it a lot must = so much more... They tend to buy 20 packs at once and undercut the regular sellers drastically in hopes of selling everything fast and being really rich from their very first week in the game. These players usually get their wish, getting 200-400mil in their first few days. That's enough to buy a nice house and push their chests out about it. They generally have little to no experience actually playing the game before they do this and they don't understand much of the game as a direct result. They're also unlikely to have in game social interaction, unless they followed a friend to the game initially, which is unlikely as they're trying so desperately to make so much money this way when their friend probably could have helped them out with a much healthier approach. This type of player typically looses interest in the game fairly quickly. Their desire for wealth has gimped their understanding of the pride that comes from working for it and they are often easily frustrated by anything that challenges them, making them a big bang but quick quitter type of player. They're usually wealthy when they walk away from the game, so actually tend to take a lot of in game money with them out of circulation when they quit.

I buy DP's using real life cash for friends or prizes in bulk in that big end of year splurge but tend to not really have anything to do with them at any other time of the year. For my own donator status, I use the basic subscription (which is automatically continued and a little cheaper than individual DP's). When a special event for an individual is coming up, I tend to buy them a DP I've bought with in game currency just for that event. I don't sell DP's because I can't afford to buy them, but I see nothing wrong with others doing so.

For a while there, tradeable DP's became a thing of the past. The site was just introducing subscription based fees and they wanted to ensure reliable sales year round, rather than peaks and troughs all over the place. There was a great deal of player outcry at this decision as many people who couldn't (or wouldn't) subscribe were at a direct disadvantage in the game because of their real life money (or lack thereof) spent on the game. Note, no items or services are for sale by the site other than the DP's and subscriptions, but the DP's did provide a strong advantage compared to not having donator status (you had more energy to do things at all times and time required to recover from things was significantly shorter). Fairly recently (some time this year, maybe June-ish? I don't remember exactly when) tradeable DP's were reintroduced alongside the subscription payment model. It's virtually as if they never left, DP's being bought and sold regularly at a stable price pretty quickly and a lot more people with DP status once again.

The creators of the site haven't actually released financial reports (as far as I know) so I can't definitively state that this many DP's were sold, that's how subscriptions grew/dwindled, so much/little money came into the game as a result of this/that action/situation/whatever. All I can really do is give anecdotal evidence that I and people I know spent significantly more on the game with the ability to buy DP's, significantly more people within the game seemed to have donator status when using in game currency was a possible way to get it, the game did not die with the reintroduction of DP's, a lot of people I knew left when DP's became hard to get (because they couldn't/wouldn't spend real money on the game and saw no point in playing the game when they couldn't be on an even playing field with everyone else who paid for subscriptions) and in general, a lot of people found it OK to support the game via other people who had the cash to spare as opposed to through their own pockets while still being just as loyal to the game as any other player was (aside from those who quit because they felt the removal of tradeable DP's was a stab in their back).

I'm not saying that this sort of system will work in every game. I'm not trying to say that it's without flaws or that it's not a thinly veiled RMT attempt by a game creator who could have followed many other routes. I am however saying that in the particular case of the one game I've seen this system used, it has worked, it has worked well, it has not broken anything, it has helped a lot of people, and those who abused it usually quickly got bored and quit. I like the system as a whole and I believe buying and trading of crysta (sourced officially) would do wonders of both the company and the players. Some people may even simply want to donate to the company so buy a bunch of extra crysta and hoard it, never to be used/sold/given away. Perhaps this could even open up new payment options for people and places that don't meet SE's current systems (like Aussies can't buy crysta but we could buy it from another player and use it then).

This was a long mail of anecdotal stuff, mainly just observances of the system in a completely different game, but maybe it'll help others see what has been done in working financial models like that, what can be gained and lost with such things, etc. To those who got through the whole post, you have my sympathy and I'm sorry that I'm not more succinct... I tried to include details even though it made the whole thing so much longer because very few details have been given in this whole thread, and without details there can be very little firm understanding.

Good luck petitioning for tradeable crysta, but just as I don't believe the introduction of this system would break anything, I also don't believe that we'll break anything by not having it either. At worst, we'll have fewer subscribers, hard working folks who could easily afford to pay to play with gil from a week or two into their first free month, never actually paying another cent but working hard within the game, stimulating the purchasing of crysta by others, stimulating the in game economy with the many results of their hard work, etc. Yes, I'm biased towards the system; I think it would be a shame to lose people who can't/won't support a subscription based payment model if they are people who would love the game and be great fellows to us all.


PS. If anyone knows what game I've been talking about all this time, drop me a line over there and you'll get added to my Xmas DP list ;P Limit of 5 people who first apply if there's an unexpected flood of mails XD And no, I'm not going to say what the game was or encourage others to join it or anything like that. We just need other stuff to do while this game is down and it doesn't look like we'll get it back in time for an Xmas event this year

[Lirion]

I think it would mess up the economy in the game. Stuff would get more expensive because gil would be easy to get for the people with a big wallet irl, leaving the other players behind. Remember that Atomos crystal exploit? Ward prices got crazy, only difference was that everyone in the game could do it.

I'm ok with buying stuff in the game with real money as long as those items are cosmetic only and untradeable. Anything that would give players an advantage will never get support from me, the ideas might be good but as soon as people can buy gil with real money this idea will become something else. The thing Ubisoft is doing with AC3 where you can buy yourself the best stuff in multiplayer is something that needs to die in a fire.

[Cynthis]

... however I will continue to show disapproval for anything that is player driven which outside of SE's design alters the game experience for the have's over the have-not's.

I completely agree! Now, I fully admit that this enhances the gaming experience for the "have's" but throughout this, and many similar discussions on the forum, I fail to see how it diminishes it for "the have-not's". If it doesn't, i.e. the "have-not's" have the same gaming experience, plus a few bucks making them overall better off and the "have's" get the enhanced gaming experience they are willing to pay for, I really don't see the downside.

[Cynthis]

Historically speaking, things have a hand of getting exploited in ffxiv, especially where gil is concerned, which is why the very possibility of implementing this scares me. I dont how things worked on other servers but I havent forgotten what happened on gugnir when atomos first popped up, b4 SE realized and nerfed him........

I think it would mess up the economy in the game. Stuff would get more expensive because gil would be easy to get for the people with a big wallet irl, leaving the other players behind. Remember that Atomos crystal exploit? Ward prices got crazy, only difference was that everyone in the game could do it.

I agree that Atomos screwed up the economy because of the INSANE amounts of gil that were introduced into the Eorzean economy. The same argument can be said is the damage done by RMTs but I am not at all convinced it would apply to this suggestion. At most some people would spend a little more time crafting and gathering to make gil to pay for their subscriptions but that might also raise the liquidity of the market wards by bringing in more goods which at least on Ragnarok would have been hugely beneficial.