SE Please implement a Chonoscroll/PLEX system in FFXIV: ARR

[Shougun]

An economic system with competition is much less profitable than an economic system dominated by monopoly.

Therefore, the system damages RMT.

Mind you, the PLEX system doesn't even play fair as competition, because it offers security, something that no RMT provider can offer and that has a rather crucial value, considering the effort that goes into a MMORPG character.

The fact that you define it "minor competition", is clear evidence that you really have large problems understanding how economy works in a MMORPG or in any environment, really.

Competition takes away their profit sure but that doesn't matter honestly. Their existence hasn't been hampered at all.

The only point at which it would matter is if they no longer existed. Otherwise talking about -their- bottom line is a waste of breath.


And how you pick out particular structures of words and fixate on them is petty. Stop trying to make an argument on syntax and grammar whilst insulting people on those choices.

[Abriael]

And how you pick out particular structures of words and fixate on them is petty. Stop trying to make an argument on syntax and grammar whilst insulting people on those choices.

I'm afraid I have to let you into the secret that telling you that you have problems understanding something (which you do), is not an insult. As much as you'd like to pass it as such to play victim.

Choice of words is very important in discussion, and the fact that you called it "minor" was evidently purposeful in trying to downplay its effect. And telling.

Competition takes away their profit sure but that doesn't matter honestly. Their existence hasn't been hampered at all.

The only point at which it would matter is if they no longer existed. Otherwise talking about -their- bottom line is a waste of breath.

According to your logic, since it's impossible to completely remove RMT, Square Enix and other MMORPG developer should stop fighting RMT altogether, since "It doesn't matter".

Yet, you're completely wrong.

RMT firms are companies. No less, no more. They have employees, thrive on profit and, besides the fact that often engage in illegal activities like identity and credential theft and credit card fraud, they work exactly like any other company.

Cutting their profits means that, if they want to continue being profitable (thing that is indispensible to survive), they need lower their expenses. In order to lower their expenses they need to cut their budget in the game in which their profits are being cut. Since their only relevant expense is paying their employees, they need to cut the number of employees working in that particular game.

Less workforce working on FFXIV -> Less gil generated and injected into the market -> Less inflation.

It's an ironclad equation. So yes, it does matter, a lot.

Mind you, some could easily just decide that it's not worth it to use their employees on FFXIV, as they can simply move them to another game where they have no official competition, and where their profits aren't hampered, effectively removing a few RMT players from the market. There's very little reason to keep people working on a difficult market when you could just use them into an easy one.

[Shougun]

I'm afraid I have to let you into the secret that telling you that you have problems understanding something (which you do), is not an insult. As much as you'd like to pass it as such to play victim.

Choice of words is very important in discussion, and the fact that you called it "minor" was evidently purposeful in trying to downplay its effect. And telling.

So telling that you feel the need to run around and insult those on opposing ideas. You are very telling yourself.

According to your logic, since it's impossible to completely remove RMT, Square Enix and other MMORPG developer should stop fighting RMT altogether, since "It doesn't matter".

Yet, you're completely wrong.

RMT firms are companies. No less, no more. They have employees, thrive on profit and, besides the fact that often engage in illegal activities like identity and credential theft and credit card fraud, they work exactly like any other company.

Cutting their profits means that, if they want to continue being profitable (thing that is indispensible to survive), they need lower their expenses. In order to lower their expenses they need to cut their budget in the game in which their profits are being cut. Since their only relevant expense is paying their employees, they need to cut the number of employees working in that particular game.

Less workforce working on FFXIV -> Less gil generated and injected into the market -> Less inflation.

It's an ironclad equation. So yes, it does matter, a lot.

You need to go play in the darkside for a little bit. You somehow think they lay all their cards on the table at once. They stock pile massive amounts of currency and sell it at the highest points possible - if they flood the market their price HAS to drop due to economic law.

Even when they are doing really well they do their best not to devalue their money.

I wouldn't say that a major hit to their pricing wouldn't effect staffing but I know that demand is demand and the introduction of PLEX wouldn't kill currency demand - the currency would still be created but instead of being made by RMT companies it is being made by players to pay for the PLEX pass. As I said before the PLEX turns players into little RMTs.

[Abriael]

So telling that you feel the need to run around and insult those on opposing ideas. You are very telling yourself.

In fact I didn't say that you insulted me. I just specified that I didn't, and mentioned that you're playing victim to try and hide the fact that your arguments are collapsing

You need to go play in the darkside for a little bit. You somehow think they lay all their cards on the table at once. They stock pile massive amounts of currency and sell it at the highest points possible - if they flood the market their price HAS to drop due to economic law.

That doesn't really matter. It just means that the effect won't be immediate. Reserves run out. No matter how big they are. A reduction in personnel will inevitably result in a reduction in gil introduced in the market. Gil doesn't just magically appear out of nowhere. People have to farm it. Less people, less gil.

I wouldn't say that a major hit to their pricing wouldn't effect staffing but I know that demand is demand and the introduction of PLEX wouldn't kill currency demand - the currency would still be created but instead of being made by RMT companies it is being made by players to pay for the PLEX pass. As I said before the PLEX turns players into little RMTs.

You may say it as many times you want, but the comparison doesn't hold. Players that only need to farm enough gold to get their monthly paid, once a month, are absolutely not comparable to gold farmers that do that for a living on 8-10 hours shifts, with 8 characters in multiboxing. Without even mentioning that players are players. They run normal content, do dungeons, get drops, craft as part of their normal routines and so forth. A large percentage of people won't need to put themselves down to specifically farm the gil for their account, as they already have gil to spare, and generate it regularly.

A large percentage of the currency demand will be shifted on the safe system (PLEX), reducing demand towards gold farming firms radically, no matter how much they lower their prices.

If given the choice between getting gil without risking their account, and getting it while risking a permanent ban, most players won't think twice to completely abandon the gilselling firms as customers.

[Shougun]

In fact I didn't say that you insulted me. I just specified that I didn't, and mentioned that you that you're playing victim to try and hide the fact that your arguments are collapsing

Not at all. I just find you are very rude and abrasive.

That doesn't really matter. It just means that the effect won't be immediate. Reserves run out. No matter how big they are. A reduction in personnel will inevitably result in a reduction in gil introduced in the market.

The only way a reduction in gil will happen is if the demand is as such - seeing as you love quoting economics so much surely this idea is obvious. PLEX does nothing to the demand of gil - it just adds a new supplier. Because it forces gil sellers to be come more competitive demand of gil will likely raise not lower - though the profit per gil for the gil sellers will be less. Competition is great for the consumer - in this case the consumer is someone that buys gil for an in game advantage, promoting a pay to win system.

You may say it as many times you want, but the comparison doesn't hold. Players that only need to farm enough gold to get their monthly paid, once a month, are absolutely not comparable to gold farmer that do that for a living on 8-10 hours shifts, with 8 characterrs in multiboxing. Without even mentioning that players are players. They run normal content, do dungeons, get drops, craft as part of their normal routines and so forth. A large percentage of people won't need to put themselves down to specifically farm the gold for their account, as they already have gil to spare, and generate it regularly. .

What ever demand is left after those who got their monthlys is still in the hands of RMT - its not going to magically disappear.

A large percentage of the currency demand will be shifted on the safe system (PLEX), reducing demand towards gold farming firms radically, no matter how much they lower their prices.

Safer practices for players is a good thing - but I dont want to play a game that lets players purchase advantage with their money (talking about direct advantage).

If given the choice between getting gil without risking their account, and getting it while risking a permanent ban, most players won't think twice to completely abandon the gilselling firms as customers.

So long as the PLEX system accommodates the demand that the illegal RMTs filled. But the system hasn't gotten rid of RMT just made it safer.

I'd rather the system be dangerous and people get screwed over and banned then have SE or w.e company allow it and make it a safe practice.

[Abriael]

Not at all. I just find you are very rude and abrasive.

So before i was insulting. Now i'm rude and abrasive. Call me when you get to the final verison

I just don't feel the need to sweeten the pill when someone tries so hard to mislead the audience.

The only way a reduction in gil will happen is if the demand is as such - seeing as you love quoting economics so much surely this idea is obvious. PLEX does nothing to the demand of gil - it just adds a new supplier.

No, it adds a supplier in a condition of radical advantage, as it can offer a service that its competitors can't offer. Security.

Therefore, it shifts the demand on itself and away from suppliers that don't offer that service.

Because it forces gil sellers to be come more competitive demand of gil will likely raise not lower

They can be as competitive as they want, but security is a rather prized merchandise when you're playing with something that costs months if not years to grow. Even if demand were to raise (unlikely, demand is not governed by offer, that's why you have two variables and not just one), it would raise for PLEX, not for gilsellers.

promoting a pay to win system.

Again with that improper definition of pay to win, lol.

What ever demand is left after those who got their monthlys is still in the hands of RMT - its not going to magically disappear.

And it's gonna be much less. RMT will get the crumbs. A lot better than them getting the whole pie.

Safer practices for players is a good thing - but I dont want to play a game that lets players purchase advantage with their money (talking about direct advantage).

What you want or don't want is rather inconsequential to SE. This is a business decision. Business decisions aren't based on taste.

So long as the PLEX system accommodates the demand that the illegal RMTs filled. But the system hasn't gotten rid of RMT just made it safer.

The system got rid of part of the RMT and of part of the negative effects (inflation due to constant injection in the market of unmanageable quantities of gil) of RMT.

In addition to that, it helps the game retaining subs in a market in which Pay to Play MMORPGs are having a *lot* of trouble retaining subs.

It's a victory and much, much better than nothing.

[Shougun]

So before i was insulting. Now i'm rude and abrasive. Call me when you get to the final verison

I just don't feel the need to sweeten the pill when someone tries so hard to mislead the audience.

Seriously? What do you think is a resultant feeling of being insulted? Joy? It is within the same lines. Dont even play that they are different versions.

No, it adds a supplier in a condition of radical advantage, as it can offer a service that its competitors can't offer. Security.

Thus, it shifts the demand on itself and away from suppliers that don't offer that service.

Ok so.. either I missread you are you have been mislead I felt you said that you were saying that PLEX will reduce the demand on RMT. But now you are saying it will just switch hands...

They can be as competitive as they want, but security is a rather prized merchandise when you're playing with something that costs months if not year to grow. Even if demand were to raise (unlikely, demand is not governed by offer, that's why you have two variables and not just one), it would raise for PLEX, not for gilsellers.

Yes - of course.

The system got rid of part of the RMT and of part of the negative effects (inflation due to constant injection in the market of unmanageable quantities of gil) of RMT. It's a victory and much, much better than nothing.

The system will only get rid of unmanageable quantities of gil if gil sellers were creating a false demand - which I have no idea how they would do that. Since RMT existence hasnt changed (PLEX system is RMT).

And I dont consider it a victory at all. I dont want a game that promotes RMT. I rather have it happen in the blackmarket with very high danger then happen safely within rule.

[Abriael]

Seriously? What do you think is a resultant feeling of being insulted? Joy? It is within the same lines. Dont even play that they are different versions.

But they are. Firmly refuting misguided and misleading arguments has nothing to do with rudeness.

Ok so.. either I missread you are you have been mislead I felt you said that you were saying that PLEX will reduce teh demand on RMT. But now you are saying it will just switch hands...

PLEX is not a RMT firm. It acts on completely different principles and rules (as much as you try very hard to equalize the two to try and put an artificial negative stigma on it)-> PLEX reduces demand for RMT firms by shifting the demand on itself.

The system will only get rid of unmanageable quantities of gil if gil sellers were creating a false demand - which I have no idea how they would do that. Since RMT existence hasnt changed (PLEX system is RMT).

RMT firms already generates unmanageable quantities of gil. That's why they cause heavyb inflation in every game where they prosper.

And I dont consider it a victory at all. I dont want a game that promotes RMT. I rather have it happen in the blackmarket with very high danger then happen safely within rule.

So you'd rather RMT firms damage the economy raidically, negatively affecting everyone's experience of the game (and giving up the chances of retaining more subs), than latting someone else get a limited amount of gil easier.

Thankfully business decisions aren't made on "I want" and "I don't want".

[Jynx]

Again with that improper definition of pay to win, lol.



And it's gonna be much less. RMT will get the crumbs. A lot better than them getting the whole pie.

"Pay to win" Isn't a definite term, means different things to different people.

But more on to the real point, if RMT were getting "Crumbs" they would move on to other games it's obvious they are still making good money PLEX or not. Like I said just because the price per sale has gone down, doesn't mean the profits aren't high.

It's like telling me Wallmart is going bankrupt because they sell candy bars for $1.00 less than the mom-pop store across the street. RMT have amazingly low overhead and if people can get something cheaper a few scary stories of RMT hackings isn't going to deter them.

If anything PLEX does little to deter RMT activity, if anything in EVE it's the large time investment you can't buy with game cash/real cash (Aside from purchasing a account, but that's a entirely different affair)

Alot of other MMOs don't have people shaking in their boots at the thought of loosing the 12 hours they put into the max level character they are now twinking with ill-goten gains. Other than driving RMT to more and more desperate actions (Hacking, and whatnot) I don't really see how PLEX is crushing the RMT's market, if anything it's making them more efficient.

Competition breeds efficiency, what was a slack jawed group of people have become rather large operations due to the requirements of making a proper turnover in cash, like I said alot of these places are now run like a actual business. There is no real solution to RMT, all you can do is make it as inconvient, or unsavory to purchase from these guys as possible. Hell if anything trying to directly attack RMT has often hurt normal people in the cross fire.

Good example: FFXIV

We currently have a massive ammount of server side checks just to make sure we aren't cheating the game, alot of the "Lag" we experience is due to bad RMT countermeasures.

[Shougun]

But they are.

They are not. If I say the world is black, and then say it is full of gloom. I haven't changed my line of thought - you continue to argue over the minutiae.

PLEX is not an RMT firm -> PLEX reduces demand for RMT firms.

Did I say PLEX reduces RMT firms? I said PLEX doesnt change demand for RMT.

RMT firms already generates unmanageable quantities of gil. That's why they cause heavyb inflation in every game where they prosper.

They generate and then hold until it sells. They cannot supply a demand that doesn't exist - if players buy they buy if they dont buy they dont buy.

So you'd rather RMT firms damage the economy raidically, negatively affecting everyone's experience of the game (and giving up the chances of retaining more subs), than latting someone else get a limited amount of gil easier.

Thankfully business decisions aren't made on "I want" and "I don't want".

RMT will exist either way your radically damage speech is mute.

And business decisions are indeed made by I wants and dont wants. Who do you think is the head of a buisiness? A robot?