SE Please implement a Chonoscroll/PLEX system in FFXIV: ARR

[Abriael]

They are not. If I say the world is black, and then say it is full of gloom. I haven't changed my line of thought - you continue to argue over the minutiae.

Actually you're the one feeling "insulted" by the simple fact that you're being proven wrong.

Did I say PLEX reduces RMT firms? I said PLEX doesnt change demand for RMT.

Which is inconsequential.

They generate and then hold until it sells. They cannot supply a demand that doesn't exist - if players buy they buy if they dont buy they dont buy.

And if they don't buy from them, they'll have to cut their staff, generating less.

RMT will exist either way your radically damage speech is mute.

According to that logic, SE and other devs should do nothing against RMT, since "it will exist either way".

And business decisions are indeed made by I wants and dont wants. Who do you think is the head of a buisiness? A robot?

No, someone with a strong education and experience in business that makes decisions by weighing pros and cons, not whims.

[Duuude007]

If you legitimize dollar to gil conversions, you are encouraging the players to adopt a pay-to-win mentality.

There is no gray area there- one directly influences the other.

If you support this, which it sounds like you do, good for you.

[Shougun]

Actually you're the one feeling "insulted" by the simple fact that you're being proven wrong.

Proven wrong by what? Your arguments hardly prove anything.

Which is inconsequential.

It is for players who care about RMT - if you go into the game and say "lets make RMT legitimate" people will go "gtfo". Your idea is doing just that.

And if they don't buy from them, they'll have to cut their staff, generating less.

They would only generate less if the demand is such - again why we are caring about "good prices on RMT" and bottom line of the enemy is foolish.

According to that logic, SE and other devs should do nothing against RMT, since "it will exist either way".

By my logic SE and other devs should continue to ban and impose efficient counter measures against players who associate with RMTs. Rather then creating better prices - for said players and promote RMT.

No, someone with a strong education and experience in business that makes decisions by weighing pros and cons, not whims.

And that most players hate pay to win, RMT, will be good when they make that educated decision.

[Abriael]

"Pay to win" Isn't a definite term, means different things to different people.

There's the proper definition, widely accepted by the industry, and the improper definition, that applies to basically every MMORPG on the market, and that misguided players slap around as a catch all phrase to stigmatize what they don't like.

But more on to the real point, if RMT were getting "Crumbs" they would move on to other games it's obvious they are still making good money PLEX or not. Like I said just because the price per sale has gone down, doesn't mean the profits aren't high.

Profits can still be acceptable to mantain operation, but as long as they lower, you have to lower your expenses, budgets, personnell, and therefore the ability to affect the market.

It's like telling me Wallmart is going bankrupt because they sell candy bars for $1.00 less than the mom-pop store across the street. RMT have amazingly low overhead and if people can get something cheaper a few scary stories of RMT hackings isn't going to deter them.

yeah, let's compare the remote possibility of a mild stomachache with a permanent ban of a characters that costed you months to build and money on top of them.

Alot of other MMOs don't have people shaking in their boots at the thought of loosing the 12 hours they put into the max level character they are now twinking with ill-goten gains.

ARR won't let you build a character in 12 hours.

Other than driving RMT to more and more desperate actions (Hacking, and whatnot) I don't really see how PLEX is crushing the RMT's market, if anything it's making them more efficient.

The more desperate, the more easily detected. By your logic fighting RMT at all is bad because "it makes them more efficient".

Competition breeds efficiency, what was a slack jawed group of people have become rather large operations due to the requirements of making a proper turnover in cash, like I said alot of these places are now run like a actual business. There is no real solution to RMT, all you can do is make it as inconvient, or unsavory to purchase from these guys as possible. Hell if anything trying to directly attack RMT has often hurt normal people in the cross fire.

PLEX-like systems can't catch anyone in the crossfire. Just another advantage they have.

[Abriael]

If you legitimize dollar to gil conversions, you are encouraging the players to adopt a pay-to-win mentality.

There is no gray area there- one directly influences the other.

Nope. As in this system there's nothing you can buy that anyone else can't get with normal gameplay. Paying doesn't guarantee any "win".

[Abriael]

Proven wrong by what? Your arguments hardly prove anything.

Must be why you feel so offended by them. They prove you wrong plenty.

It is for players who care about RMT - if you go into the game and say "lets make RMT legitimate" people will go "gtfo". Your idea is doing just that.

Hundreds of thousands of players on TERA and EVE online prove you wrong.

They would only generate less if the demand is such - again why we are caring about "good prices on RMT" and bottom line of the enemy is foolish.

Beating the enemy on its own territory is far from foolish.

By my logic SE and other devs should continue to ban and impose efficient counter measures against players who associate with RMTs. Rather then creating better prices - for said players and promote RMT.

You used "RMT will still exist" as an argument to dismiss PLEX. So the same argument can be used to dismiss any other countermeasure, since "RMT will still exist" whether they are in place or not.

And that most players hate pay to win, RMT, will be good when they make that educated decision.

Again, hundreds of thousands of players on TERA and EVE online (not to mention the rather large and growing number of likes on the OP) prove you wrong.

Thinking that your opinion is automatically matched by the majority is a rather fallacious train of thought.

PLEX-like systems have already been accepted without incidents by two rather large playerbases. They have actually been accepted much easier than other concepts as simple and relatively innocuous as completely cosmetic cash shops.

Yoshida already said that he finds the concept interesting, and if he were to introduce it, the ARR playerbase in general wouldn't break a sweat.

[Duuude007]

Nope. As in this system there's nothing you can buy that anyone else can't get with normal gameplay. Paying doesn't guarantee any "win".

An awfully quick assertion for your xiv background, mister Rosen. What would make it pay to win under your standards, then?

[Abriael]

An awfully quick assertion for your xiv background, mister Rosen. What would make it pay to win under your standards, then?

What's my XIV background? Making assumptions again?

According to the most widely accepted definition in the industry Pay to Win (as I already specified multiple times) implies an advantage that cannot be gained with normal gameplay.

IE: selling boosters that raise stats over their natural values (and that aren't available as drops, craftables and such), gear that is more powerful than what's available in game, enchant materials that are superior to the ones available in game and so forth.

Gil can easily be matched with normal gameplay, and it's even further from pay to win as in ARR gil won't even let you buy the best equipment in the game, that will be untradable.

[Shougun]

Must be why you feel so offended by them. They prove you wrong plenty.

Only offended because I am a precious snowflake and found it rude that you felt to claim such a power over economy and others cant, which you obviously don't have anyways.

Hundreds of thousands of players on TERA and EVE online prove you wrong.
*

Interesting that the common response in the FFXIV forums about Tera and Eve is no thanks.
Your idea has its place, and it is not here. Just like F2P has its place.

Beating the enemy on its own territory is far from foolish.
*

You haven't beaten them you have just pushed them to make a more competitive offer.

You used "RMT will still exist" as an argument to dismiss PLEX. So the same argument can be used to dismiss any other countermeasure, since "RMT will still exist" whether they are in place or not.
*

To create a more effective RMT is what PLEX does. To demote RMT all together by banning those interested in it is a REAL method to lower demand on RMT.

Again, hundreds of thousands of players on TERA and EVE online (not to mention the rather large and growing number of likes on the OP) prove you wrong. *

Proves me wrong? All the likes on your OP post must be the perfect sample size right? I dont think so. Besides from reading most comments they dont even understand it supports pay to win.

Thinking that your opinion is automatically matched by the majority is a rather fallacious train of thought.

Perhaps, but I feel safe to say given a flat out description "supports RMT" "doesnt support RMT" option they will almost always pick the later.

According to the most widely accepted definition in the industry Pay to Win (as I already specified multiple times) implies an advantage that cannot be gained with normal gameplay.

IS not the industry standard.

[Aenarion]

The chart starts in the month Revelations II expansion was launched the week after Game time codes came out. They work the same way as plexes but were less user friendly.

Eh, GTC existed way before Revelation II. If memory serves me correctly, it's been around since at least Red Moon Rising (which is when I started playing Eve), if not before.

Ah, the days when 90day gtc was still around, and were sold for well under 200mil...

Interesting that the common response in the FFXIV forums about Tera and Eve is no thanks.
Your idea has its place, and it is not here. Just like F2P has its place.

Actually, it does belong here, as the last time I checked this forum is supposed to be a place for people to discuss ideas, or are you saying that only ideas you like can be discussed here?

To create a more effective RMT is what PLEX does. To demote RMT all together by banning those interested in it is a REAL method to lower demand on RMT.

Technically, PLEX is an official pseudo-RMT. Also, good luck with your anti-RMT measure, history has shown time and time again that as long as there's a demand, there will be a market for it. A war on illicit RMT has about as much chance of success as the war on drugs, go ahead, ask the US govt how well that one is going.

On the topic of P2W definitions, it really varies from person to person. There are people who think that it becomes P2W when cash shops with game balance changing items are introduced, and there are also those who believe that the mere ability to dual box constitutes P2W. Ultimately it's more of a subjective classification than anything else.

BTW, still waiting for people to debate this logically, but I'm not gonna hold my breath