SE Please implement a Chonoscroll/PLEX system in FFXIV: ARR

[strallaalaa]

if you play 20hours a year you shouldn't be at par with others who play 5hrs a day every day. pay2win is there with this type of system. this is a cash shop in disguise, you pay SE you get gil in return by trading it. we pay a monthly for a reason ...to enjoy a mmo that is not a P2win. if i want this i can go play a F2P mmo. people don't get that time invested in a mmo to have things others can't get is a huge point of playing. the only good part of this idea is playing for free and i still would rather pay the 15bucks..hell 30bucks a month to keep the game company from being a inside, ok rmt.

tldr simple: no time to play mmo, don't play mmo. like i pay 15bucks for the same amount of content as a offliner game. or play 2hrs a day even to have some douchebag pay for the same position.

[A_Hortensia]

A PLEX system specifically combats inflation and is self-regulating such that if people who don't take part in it will be unaffected by it. Please read my original post for why that is.

A lot of these concerned people aren't so much concerned about inflation or how it'll affect the in-game market.

They are mostly concerned with someone paying real money to get ahead in the game.

Everyone on both sides agrees that RMT cheaters/botters/spammers and economy manipulation are bad.

[Shougun]

A PLEX system specifically combats inflation and is self-regulating such that if people who don't take part in it will be unaffected by it. Please read my original post for why that is.

No it doesnt combat inflation.

It only creates a limit in the direction you can RMT. You can use real money to buy in game currency. The limit is you cant use in game currency to buy real money - you can only use it to buy time.

Its an obstfucation of buying in game currency from an RMT but it is still buying in game currency.

And it is untrue that people not taking part in it will not be affected.

You are introducing a new method of passing around currency - that flow will go AROUND those players who dont take part. Effectively minimizing their ratios compared to those who are using real money.

End result meaning - p2w has been legalized in game.

[Abriael]

No p2w doesnt mean just that. If you can play the game at 1/10000 the rate you can access all the options but you will not win compared to someone else.

To "win" you need to pay.

And in fact in this system you don't NEED To pay at all. People that don't pay can still get exactly the same items, exactly the same statistics as everyone else.

To have a pay to win system you have to NEED to pay in order to win. Ergo, it only applies where people that pay have access to statistical bonuses and items that othr players can't access.

When you introduce p2w, your own RMT system, you will devalue the currency and thus inflate prices. Anyone who doesnt pay to win will therefore play the game at a slower rate.

False.

You don't devalue the currency at all. The amount of currency on the market remains exactly the same. While some people's buying power will increase, some other's will decrease, the end result is the same.

This system decreases inflation as it cuts the earnings of RMT, with it their budget, and with their budget their workforce. Less workforce means that they can inject less currency in the market, causing less inflation.

On top of that, it adds a further gil sink because transactions are taxed.

It's funny how people continue to sustain the theory that it will devalue the currency when it flies in the face of both economical theory and both of the real examples we already have in place.

Of course you can swear to god that the sky is yellow with green polka dots. But that doesn't make it true, no matter how many times you repeat it.

[viion]

I really like this idea, it works very well in the games it is in.

I think SE will really have to consider something like this because I don't think they will survive being P2P. There is just too many good freeness out there and much to come in the years that XIV will have to compete with.

That said, being that 1.0 was P2P i don't think SE is really bothered, I know they're a company that needs to make money but they barely shift on anything, XI is still same price, never shifted, even its addons are still same price XD I think XIV will stay monthly and it will likely be a huge disadvantage for the game, but not one SE sees as an issue.

[Shougun]

And in fact in this system you don't NEED To pay at all. People that don't pay can still get exactly the same items, exactly the same statistics as everyone else.

To have a pay to win system you have to NEED to pay in order to win. Ergo, it only applies where people that pay have access to statistical bonuses and items that othr players can't access.

Those who dont pay are actually making things worse. They are supporting p2w by farming and then selling their farm to someone who used real money. Basically you become an RMT shop and non paying players become your Chinese workshop farmers.

And you really are ignoring or dont get the pay to win meaning. If you can pay to play better, it is a pay to win system. If you can use real money to get ahead, it is a pay to win system. This idea IS a pay to win system.

False.

You don't devalue the currency at all. The amount of currency on the market remains exactly the same. While some people's buying power will increase, some other's will decrease, the end result is the same.

It's funny how people continue to sustain the theory that it will devalue the currency when it flies in the face of both economical theory and both of the real examples we already have.

You increase reasons to farm - increases currency, devalues currency, inflation on prices.
True.

Also in your own words you have labeled this system pay to win. "While some people's buying power will increase, some other's will decrease". This is not acceptable.

[Abriael]

Those who dont pay are actually making things worse. They are supporting p2w by farming and then selling their farm to someone who used real money. Basically you become an RMT shop and non paying players become your Chinese workshop farmers.

You assume that those people need to farm as much gil as humanly possible, like the gil farmers do. In reality that's completely false, as all they need to farm is what they need to get their monthly item. The influence on the market is negligible, and comparing them to "chinese workshop farmers" is an extremization that voids your argument of any validity.

And you really are ignoring or dont get the pay to win meaning. If you can pay to play better, it is a pay to win system. If you can use real money to get ahead, it is a pay to win system. This idea IS a pay to win system.

Actually, having been a game writer for 15 years and having discussed this kind of topic a ton of times with developers, industry professionals and other writers alike, yeah, I have a very clear idea of what "pay to win" means.

According to your overly simplistic definition *every* MMORPG can be defined pay to win one way or another. Including FFXIV 1.0. Of course, that's not the case.

My definition is the definition widely accepted by the industry, and as such the only one that counts, unless you're in the business of calling things with the wrong name for shock value.

It is amusing, though, to see how many people still apply the concept inappropriately to games in which paying doesn't give any sizable advantage over those that don't pay.

Also in your own words you have labeled this system pay to win. "While some people's buying power will increase, some other's will decrease". This is not acceptable.

You misinterpreted it (probably intentionally).

People whose buying power increases - Those that sell PLEX/Chronoscrolls, because they have more gold.
People whose buying power decreases - Those that buy PLEX/Chronoscrolls, because they have less gold.
Everyone else is unaffected, because, inflation-wise the other two categories cancel each other out.

Again. You're making up theories that conflict with economical theory, and that have already been proven wrong by reality in two distinct games.

[axemtitanium]

Also in your own words you have labeled this system pay to win. "While some people's buying power will increase, some other's will decrease". This is not acceptable.

I think he misspoke. No one's buying power will change at all because no new currency will be introduced to circulation. The consumer price index (definition) will stay the same. When one person uses real money to purchase a PLEX and then sells it on the market wards, he is gaining money from another person who used to own that money. When he spends it on other items on the markets, he disseminates this money to the people who were selling those items. No money is created during this process, hence, no inflation or devaluing of currency. Besides, anything that can be purchased from the wards will be second-rate anyway since Yoshi-P has already stated that the best-in-slot gear will all be U/U drops from dungeons/bosses/whatever. At absolute worst, you'll find some PLEX buyers running around in double-meld gear while the real endgame players have full sets of Darklight or whatever is the best equipment in 2.0. If by pay-to-win, you mean pay-to-have-second-rate-equipment, then sure, call it that.

[Shougun]

I think he misspoke. No one's buying power will change at all because no new currency will be introduced to circulation. The consumer price index (definition) will stay the same. When one person uses real money to purchase a PLEX and then sells it on the market wards, he is gaining money from another person who used to own that money. When he spends it on other items on the markets, he disseminates this money to the people who were selling those items. No money is created during this process, hence, no inflation or devaluing of currency. Besides, anything that can be purchased from the wards will be second-rate anyway since Yoshi-P has already stated that the best-in-slot gear will all be U/U drops from dungeons/bosses/whatever. At absolute worst, you'll find some PLEX buyers running around in double-meld gear while the real endgame players have full sets of Darklight or whatever is the best equipment in 2.0.

There is a shift in gil. The ability to bring in real money to shift gil changes your buying power.

100000000000 gil is worth more then 1 gil.

If I can use 10$ to get 100000 gil, I have more buying power then someone who will not use 10$.

[Abriael]

There is a shift in gil. The ability to bring in real money to shift gil changes your buying power.

And since the one that gave you the gil had his buying power reduced at the same time, the two instances cancel each other. No inflation is generated.

If I can use 10$ to get 100000 gil, I have more buying power then someone who will not use 10$.

Not necessarily, because that someone can simply get 100000 gil normally.