[dev1033] Class name changes

[Sorel]

Why is it hard to understand that the current classes aren't functional in any sense of the word? All you're suggesting is extra classes and hoping that the others fade away and are forgotten. That is hiding a flaw with content or putting a new rug on a dirty floor.

It has not been established as fact the the existing classes are non-functional. Many players have been enjoying the existing classes, and have been quite successful. The classes certainly need adjustment, but many players have embraced them. What is being asked for is not removal of the existing classes, just the addition of traditional job names in one way or another.

Naoki Yoshida described two ways of doing this. Neither of which involved removing the old classes.

[Cairdeas]

It has not been established as fact the the existing classes are non-functional. Many players have been enjoying the existing classes, and have been quite successful. The classes certainly need adjustment, but many players have embraced them. What is being asked for is not removal of the existing classes, just the addition of traditional job names in one way or another.

Naoki Yoshida described two ways of doing this. Neither of which involved removing the old classes.

Yes, one of his choices sounds like an Augment, maybe a Title System or tree system that gives bonuses for using skills from a specific "Job" no matter what your "Class" is.

[Kurokikaze]

It has not been established as fact the the existing classes are non-functional. Many players have been enjoying the existing classes, and have been quite successful. The classes certainly need adjustment, but many players have embraced them. What is being asked for is not removal of the existing classes, just the addition of traditional job names in one way or another.

Naoki Yoshida described two ways of doing this. Neither of which involved removing the old classes.

People in this game also embrace and like Battle Regimens or dare I say it... fishing. That doesn't mean its good and or functional. Just means those people can withstand playing through shitty concepts. Can I get one of these FFXIV Goggles that let you hide shitty mechanics?

I never said you were suggesting removing them. What I pointed out was how you feel that adding new classes will somehow fix the older ones. Sorry but thats just not how it works. Renaming the current classes doesn't work it. A turd is a different word but its still a piece of shit.

Lemme know when the last time you saw a CON or THM nuke (only) in party was. Don't worry, I'll wait.

[Sorel]

I never said you were suggesting removing them. What I pointed out was how you feel that adding new classes will somehow fix the older ones. Sorry but thats just not how it works. Renaming the current classes doesn't work it. A turd is a different word but its still a piece of shit.

I never stated that adding new classes will fix the existing classes. Actually, I said that the existing classes certainly need adjustment.

We are talking about two separate but related issues. One is fixing the existing classes. The other is adding traditional Final Fantasy job names to FFXIV. There is no need for them to be mutually exclusive, however. We can ask SE to do both.

And to answer your question, I have not ever seen a Conjurer or Thaumaturge exclusively nuke in a party. But that is more of an issue with defining character roles in parties. Again, it's related but separate issue.

[Griss]

And your suggestion is: Keep what we have now but give it a shiny name/class icon so its cool. No, sorry... but that clearly will NOT solve the issue plaguing classes now just going by the fact that its an issue to begin with.

Let's call a THM with a defensive load out a Mystic Knight from FF5. Then people will forget how broken it is.

ask your self. what is a thief, what is a paladin what is a (insert classic name here) More importantly ask your self what a class is. When you boil down what a "Class" is when it comes to any game, i mean really dig into the guts and gore of the meaning. A class is simple identifier of a skill set, weapon, and armor choices. The failing of this games system is that class is currently used to only identify the weapon a player has equipped on there character and what armor there best suited to, the skill set is totally outside of its purview.

i think something like i posted would be a good step towards really cementing identity. by having definitive specializations you are not a "jack of all trades" you are building in a definite direction to perform a very identifiable roll in a group setting. And i think is whats really at the core of the calls for better class identity. but then again i am just another blow hard on the Internet who thinks he has a half way decent idea.

Now would the current skill system make a perfect and flawless transition into it? no, not really. Is what i said iron clad and flawless from top to bottom? heck no. but i think its a good way to cement things better while keeping the flexibility that we are currently enjoying, and just by looking at your signature you are probably enjoying the fruits of that system Kurokikaze

[Teknoman]

the admission of defeat was already proclaimed by the firing of the developers. the game does not feel like a FF without the classic classes and names. players should not have to grind through the game to end up acheiving something that was standard in ffxi, like a WHM or BLM....

Maybe, but the current jobs work nothing like a standard FF job. Right now taken by themselves, act like a combination of past XI jobs, so an advanced job system would be the best course of action. No one said it would be a lofty goal though. It might just be a class guild quest or something.

EDIT: If anything, Gladiator would be a Warrior, and Marauder would be a Berserker. Still, an advanced system as well as adjustments to current classes would be the best way to approach things.

[Chromeo_El_Lobo]

I think I can agree with Kurokikaze, in that we can't just add in the Classic jobs without addressing the issues with the current ones, such as lack of uniqueness.

That said, I still think there's a way that both can be had. Current jobs being fixed, and Classic jobs being added, to create player flexibility and balance.

[Raxiaz]

I am in support of the FFT job advancement system as well, and think that it would be the proper way to go about solving this issue.

[Kurokikaze]

I think I can agree with Kurokikaze, in that we can't just add in the Classic jobs without addressing the issues with the current ones, such as lack of uniqueness.

That said, I still think there's a way that both can be had. Current jobs being fixed, and Classic jobs being added, to create player flexibility and balance.

This is what I proposed a few pages back and in another thread:



Spread the word. Two birds with one huge rock.

[Talon]

I would have to agree with the idea of using a FFT job system. In the past Tactics game I played it was always fun to figure out which job combos I needed to level to unlock 'X' job.