Reflecting on SWTOR and XIV

[indira]

lots of delusion on the forums today.

[Jadi]

I think we are very lucky with XIV, and hopefully we will see something that isn't a clone of typical A class mmo's out there, but is easy enough for those who are accustomed to those to be able to pickup quickly.

SWTOR has its main feature in the storytelling, branching dialogue, companion interaction and everything that is peculiar of BioWare RPGs.

WoW does not.

It's a radical difference, and one must be completely blind not to notice it since it's slapped in your face at every corner that you turn.

Saying that SWTOR is a clone of WoW is like saying that Battlefield is a clone of Call of Duty because they're the same genre and have similar controls.

It pretty obvious that it doesn't make the slightest sense. Everyone into racing will tell you that a tire doesn't need to be square in order to be different.

I don't view content as making it different. Of *course* the content is different, that’s a no brainier. I'm talking about it's structure and the way it operates.. if you remove all artwork and content from both games and add stick figures in... do you think you could tell what game you were playing in the first 30 minutes? The really nice part about XIV 1.x is that it was without a doubt NOT WoW, so I'm hopeful that SE continues to break new ground adding fallbacks to common mmo conventions if and when they make sense to do so.

As if controls should be different in every game... There is no need to try and reinvent the wheel. (Also it's not like WoW was the first game to be controlled this way.)

I don't mean in that sense.. you are correct, and there are common conventions but what I mean is for example XIV uses a different type of control than most other MMO's being controller friendly, the way the camera moves and locks.. that sort of stuff.

Partly I'm fearful now that SE is copying SWTOR with the companions in their ideas of the Chocoboos !!! NO SE! don't do it.. we don't all need to be running around questing with our Chocoboo!

[Abriael]

I don't view content as making it different. Of *course* the content is different, that’s a no brainier. I'm talking about it's structure and the way it operates.. if you remove all artwork and content from both games and add stick figures in... do you think you could tell what game you were playing in the first 30 minutes? The really nice part about XIV 1.x is that it was without a doubt NOT WoW, so I'm hopeful that SE continues to break new ground adding fallbacks to common mmo conventions if and when they make sense to do so.

Too bad that the heavy focus on storyline, the branching dialogue, the companion interaction et cetera aren't just "content". They're integral part of what you call "the structure of the game and the way it operates".

[Jadi]

Too bad that the heavy focus on storyline, the branching dialogue, the companion interaction et cetera aren't just "content". They're integral part of what you call "the structure of the game and the way it operates".

Ok dude, sure. :: roll eyes :: it's not content, whatever.

[Abriael]

Ok dude, sure. :: roll eyes :: it's not content, whatever.

It's fun when people pretend not to understand points that demolish their misguided arguments...

It's not *just* content. It's also integral part of the structure of the game. It doesn't take a degree in rocket science (nor in English literature) to understand it.

[Jadi]

It's fun when people pretend not to understand points that demolish their misguided arguments...

It's not *just* content. It's also integral part of the structure of the game. It doesn't take a degree in rocket science (nor in English literature) to understand it.

Unhun.. Yes, I absolutely agree with you. Your point was well put and you are a genius. (to think you actually review games.. man this explains a lot to me now..)

[Zumi]

Game genres have certain games that have set the standard for what those games should feel like. For example most FPS today feel like Halo or CoD why because those games set the current standard for FPS. When I play any FPS that isn't one of those games I get the same feeling and similar controls. When I sit down to play a 2d fighter it plays like Street Fighter, when I play a 3d fighter it usually plays like Tekken or Vitura Fighter. When I play a turn based RPG I expect something like the Final Fantasy games.

FFXIV was so broken at the beginning and didn't follow a lot of the basic mechanics that were already set by WoW and other similar MMOs that people just didn't like it. From animation lock to exp system that did work right randomly get SP some times you didn't other times SP gain would totally break and you have to relog, to a UI that was unresponsive and sluggish at best, very slow paced and unresponsive combat, lack of any kind of end game, no AH and people being told to look through hundreds of retainers for what they want to buy. FFXIV 1.0 was just way below the game industry stranded for MMOs. People left very fast cause of it. 1.0 wasn't some holy grail of originality it was a lot of broken stuff.

A problem with MMOs is people go through content very fast. SWTOR from what I heard didn't have enough stuff to do when you hit level cap. People very much liked the leveling process and all the voiced stuff they did but once you hit level cap people ran out of stuff to do. WoW on the other hand has a huge amount of endgame to do. Part of it has to do with their budget on these type of games. Because Blizzard has so many players they can afford to have a lot more content. It may be only every 6 months but when they release a content patch keeps players busy for quite awhile.

Another thing is attachment in WoW a lot of people get attached to their game they might try out other games when they are bored with the current patch on WoW but then they always go back to WoW when a new patch drops to try out the new content that gets added, since they already built up a lot of characters even more reason to go back.

[Abriael]

Unhun.. Yes, I absolutely agree with you. Your point was well put and you are a genius. (to think you actually review games.. man this explains a lot to me now..)

Ah, the little petty art of the personal attack when one has no arguments to counter what someone says...

The fact that the story of the game varies depending on your choices and actions, that you have companions that are basically characters on their own merit, that you can equip, fight at your side, change their behavior depending on your choices and are designed to make solo gameplay more viable, the fact that even playing as a group you have ways to influence the storyline in favor or against what the other members decide and so forth...

They're all *gameplay mechanics*, not just content. I really am not sure on how to explain it in a simpler way than this.

[Jadi]

Game genres have certain games that have set the standard for what those games should feel like. For example most FPS today feel like Halo or CoD why because those games set the current standard for FPS. When I play any FPS that isn't one of those games I get the same feeling and similar controls. When I sit down to play a 2d fighter it plays like Street Fighter, when I play a 3d fighter it usually plays like Tekken or Vitura Fighter. When I play a turn based RPG I expect something like the Final Fantasy games.

FFXIV was so broken at the beginning and didn't follow a lot of the basic mechanics that were already set by WoW and other similar MMOs that people just didn't like it. From animation lock to exp system that did work right randomly get SP some times you didn't other times SP gain would totally break and you have to relog, to a UI that was unresponsive and sluggish at best, very slow paced and unresponsive combat, lack of any kind of end game, no AH and people being told to look through hundreds of retainers for what they want to buy. FFXIV 1.0 was just way below the game industry stranded for MMOs. People left very fast cause of it. 1.0 wasn't some holy grail of originality it was a lot of broken stuff.

A problem with MMOs is people go through content very fast. SWTOR from what I heard didn't have enough stuff to do when you hit level cap. People very much liked the leveling process and all the voiced stuff they did but once you hit level cap people ran out of stuff to do. WoW on the other hand has a huge amount of endgame to do. Part of it has to do with their budget on these type of games. Because Blizzard has so many players they can afford to have a lot more content. It may be only every 6 months but when they release a content patch keeps players busy for quite awhile.

Another thing is attachment in WoW a lot of people get attached to their game they might try out other games when they are bored with the current patch on WoW but then they always go back to WoW when a new patch drops to try out the new content that gets added, since they already built up a lot of characters even more reason to go back.

No, I agree with this, 1.x branch only really started to get good around 1.19 I think.. however lets assume that all the technical problems didn't exist in 1.0 and that things functioned the way they should have.. and lets assume things like mailboxes, player houses, transport and AH's would have existed if given time to develop them. We may have seen something quite new and interesting had this happened.. However since release changes were made (mostly in XI's favor) but some of these were new and quite good as well such as the combo system.

One of the big things I think XIV has in favor of WoW and SWTOR is that you can be any class. (actually several types of the same class now with jobs.) This gives you more attachment to your character identity something SE seems to feel strong about. I love this feature.

[Jadi]

Ah, the little petty art of the personal attack when one has no arguments to counter what someone says...

The fact that the story of the game varies depending on your choices and actions, that you have companions that are basically characters on their own merit, that you can equip, fight at your side, change their behavior depending on your choices and are designed to make solo gameplay more viable, the fact that even playing as a group you have ways to influence the storyline in favor or against what the other members decide and so forth...

They're all *gameplay mechanics*, not just content. I really am not sure on how to explain it in a simpler way than this.

Yep.. soooo.. your just gonna keep posting right?